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Your argument fails for the same reasons you have been told over and over again.
As soon as you get to "God", you change the rules of cause and effect.
That's cheating.
still waiting.
The rules are different for God because he is not part of the equation--he's bigger than it. There logically MUST be a first cause that was not caused.
Clearly you do - but only right up to the point where it involves God, at which point you do a lot of hand-waving and mumbling and declare that it doesn't apply there.
Clearly you do - but only right up to the point where it involves God, at which point you do a lot of hand-waving and mumbling and declare that it doesn't apply there.
We're the ones who are waiting for your to explain why God is somehow not subject to causality.
As HD said, your argument only works if it denies its own premise.
You're caught in a loop.
As I said--logically speaking, there has to have been something that kicked it all off. If that something is bigger than creation, it's not hard to understand how the rules of cause/effect don't apply specifically to it.
As I said--logically speaking, there has to have been something that kicked it all off.
Unless HD is right and the Universe is eternal and uncreated.
Either way, you cannot say that cause is God without abandoning your own causality logic. There is no argument you can make that creates and exception for God. It's not logical. You just make an assumption.
It didn't work for Descartes, it's not going to work for you either.
Quote:
If that something is bigger than creation, it's not hard to understand how the rules of cause/effect don't apply specifically to it.
Do you have a better answer?
Yes. God and the Universe are indistinguishable. God is what the ancient Chinese called the Tao.
At least, it's the best explanation I've heard so far. I'll post it again for you:
25
There was something formless and perfect
before the universe was born.
It is serene. Empty.
Solitary. Unchanging.
Infinite. Eternally present.
It is the mother of the universe.
For lack of a better name,
I call it the Tao.
It flows through all things,
inside and outside, and returns
to the origin of all things.
The Tao is great.
The universe is great.
Earth is great.
Man is great.
These are the four great powers.
Man follows the earth.
Earth follows the universe.
The universe follows the Tao.
The Tao follows only itself.
________________________
Tao Te Ching, Mitchell translation
You consistently mislable me as an atheist, just because my idea of God is more abstract than yours.
Unless HD is right and the Universe is eternal and uncreated.
1. The 2nd law of thermodynamics. It states that all usable energy will run down and degrade over time. If the universe was eternal it would have by now.
2. If the universe is eternal (and time along with it), we could not have passed over an infinite amount of time in our past to get to "now".
As I've stated--the idea of an eternal universe is simply impossible.
Quote:
Either way, you cannot say that cause is God without abandoning your own causality logic. There is no argument you can make that creates and exception for God. It's not logical. You just make an assumption.
It didn't work for Descartes, it's not going to work for you either.
Causality as we know it applies to the universe we live in. God is not part of the universe.
Quote:
Yes. God and the Universe are indistinguishable. God is what the ancient Chinese called the Tao.
I don't care what the Chinese say about the Tao. God is not part of the universe. He created it. Unless you've got a better idea of how the universe came to be.
Quote:
At least, it's the best explanation I've heard so far. I'll post it again for you:
25
There was something formless and perfect
before the universe was born.
It is serene. Empty.
Solitary. Unchanging.
Infinite. Eternally present.
It is the mother of the universe.
For lack of a better name,
I call it the Tao.
It flows through all things,
inside and outside, and returns
to the origin of all things.
The Tao is great.
The universe is great.
Earth is great.
Man is great.
These are the four great powers.
Man follows the earth.
Earth follows the universe.
The universe follows the Tao.
The Tao follows only itself.
________________________
Tao Te Ching, Mitchell translation
You consistently mislable me as an atheist, just because my idea of God is more abstract than yours.
You might as well be. You believe in silly myths that don't explain anything.
Great read. I read something similar the other day. And ill bet most aren't aware of things like the importance of transition fossils and how none have ever been found.
Oh good grief. ALL fossils are of "transitionals".
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