It's all the babyboomers fault! (unemployment rate, salary, Reagan, Kennedy)

[RedNC]

It’s amazing how baystater is focusing on the boomers materialistic focus when that’s all I see in the gen(?).
Morality is the biggest loser from boomers to gen(?). The boomers were taught morals by their parents and for whatever reason they did not pass them on to the next generation. This break in the centuries old chain is the reason for most of the worlds problems today.

Take a look at how the 40+ are treated in the work force today. This isn’t the boomers doing this. The gen(?) act like they are the first ones to climb the latter. They seem programmed to do what ever it takes to get to the top. Cheating is no longer frowned on, it’s actually just another tool. After all without cheating most would have never finished school.

This is a great example of a lack of understanding of the real problem with gen(?).
“But honestly the only way I think to fix this problem is for the market to take a big hit. Not necessary a depression but a good recession should do the trick. And as thing stand as of late I'm might get that wish. Of course you know what about "becareful what you wish for."
What is that? Another “time out”?
Gen(?) were never taught the work ethic that goes along with achievement. All they were taught was go get it, you deserve it, it’s yours, do whatever you need to do to get yours, “whatever it takes”.
Just like most parents today they think that taking away something material or a time out will some how teach the child a lesson. Without boundries (morals) all it will do is leave them wanting/demanding more.

[TheHarvester]

Originally Posted by TnHilltopper

Harvester, do you attribute our extreme political correctness and victim worship to an egocentric viewpoint that was started by the baby boomers, or something external that was fed to them? I would also be curious to know when celebrity worship began to permeate our culture, as they slipped that one in while I wasn't paying attention.

Interesting questions that should generate a lot of responses (hopefully.)

I think celebrity worship has always existed. If you look at an isolated tribe of 100 individuals, there's a social hierarchy and there is prestige associated with being close to the person who is at the top of the heap. Democracy, mass media and mass consumption have probably contributed a great deal to the current form of celebrity worship, in which a "nobody" can suddenly achieve the highest status through such bizarre means as American Idol. But when you look at the social, political, economic and technological context, it all makes sense. Isn't this an expression of the American Dream? The idea that "anyone can make it" and one becomes King or Queen not according to an accident of birth, but rather via the wide-open world of possibilities for achieving status.

It doesn't speak well of human nature.

"...do you attribute our extreme political correctness and victim worship to an egocentric viewpoint that was started by the baby boomers...?


I don't agree with the premise that boomers "started" anything. I think we're a product of the phenomenal prosperity and unprecedented period of economic and population growth in the wake of WWII, and we're an accident of history. We were the lucky generation who got to experience life as though there were no limits to how crazy you could act, how much you could buy, how far you could travel --- we grew up with huge dreams of going to the Moon or making huge scientific breakthroughs or liberating women or reviving Christianity from its moribund status --- and for many of us we saw our dreams dashed repeatedly. I think this led to a cynicism that contributed to the ego-centric "me first" attitude, because the idealism seemed to have met with failure but we hadn't lost the appetite for gluttony instilled in us by our parents' generation.

As for political correctness, we need someone else to respond. I'm at a loss to explain that one. For example, how we went from Martin Luther King, Jr. to the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson --- I'm at a loss for words...

But the religious revivalism of the Boomer generation doesn't get enough credit for pumping energy back into American Christianity. I'm not personally of that viewpoint, but for those who are, thank a boomer who was part of the Jesus Freak movement that shunned the dead rituals of the traditional church in favor of idealistic activist evangelical Christianity.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by TheHarvester

I think celebrity worship has always existed. If you look at an isolated tribe of 100 individuals, there's a social hierarchy and there is prestige associated with being close to the person who is at the top of the heap. Democracy, mass media and mass consumption have probably contributed a great deal to the current form of celebrity worship, in which a "nobody" can suddenly achieve the highest status through such bizarre means as American Idol. But when you look at the social, political, economic and technological context, it all makes sense. Isn't this an expression of the American Dream?

I agree the celebrity worship has always existed. I even think that there were always Paris Hilton types, who had little depth or originality, but lots of buzz.
However, it seems to me that there used to be more *separation* between hard news and the softer stuff..
When it came to Valentino or Frank Sinatra or the latest starlet, you read the gossip columnists or bought a pulp tabloid.
These days it's all on cable or even in what used to be considered fairly serious newspapers and/or magazines.

...were no limits to how crazy you could act, how much you could buy, how far you could travel --- we grew up with huge dreams of going to the Moon or making huge scientific breakthroughs or liberating women or reviving Christianity from its moribund status --- and for many of us we saw our dreams dashed repeatedly. I think this led to a cynicism that contributed to the ego-centric "me first" attitude, because the idealism seemed to have met with failure but we hadn't lost the appetite for gluttony instilled in us by our parents' generation.

How did our parents' generation instill gluttony? Do you mean because we were so indulged in the first place? Could be.
Maybe that's part of the selling-out I so deplore?
I really don't understand all that. How much money does a person need?

As for political correctness, we need someone else to respond. I'm at a loss to explain that one. For example, how we went from Martin Luther King, Jr. to the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson --- I'm at a loss for words...

It's that pesky human nature thing again.
However, for every Sharpton or Jackson there are other men and women living quiet lives of good example. We just don't hear about them so much because they are not part of the publicity machine.

But the religious revivalism of the Boomer generation doesn't get enough credit for pumping energy back into American Christianity. I'm not personally of that viewpoint, but for those who are, thank a boomer who was part of the Jesus Freak movement that shunned the dead rituals of the traditional church in favor of idealistic activist evangelical Christianity.

Where I've been living the past couple years, religion never did unravel from the fabric of community life. But I know what you mean.

[baystater]

Originally Posted by RedNC

It’s amazing how baystater is focusing on the boomers materialistic focus when that’s all I see in the gen(?).
Morality is the biggest loser from boomers to gen(?). The boomers were taught morals by their parents and for whatever reason they did not pass them on to the next generation. This break in the centuries old chain is the reason for most of the worlds problems today.

Take a look at how the 40+ are treated in the work force today. This isn’t the boomers doing this. The gen(?) act like they are the first ones to climb the latter. They seem programmed to do what ever it takes to get to the top. Cheating is no longer frowned on, it’s actually just another tool. After all without cheating most would have never finished school.

This is a great example of a lack of understanding of the real problem with gen(?).
“But honestly the only way I think to fix this problem is for the market to take a big hit. Not necessary a depression but a good recession should do the trick. And as thing stand as of late I'm might get that wish. Of course you know what about "becareful what you wish for."
What is that? Another “time out”?
Gen(?) were never taught the work ethic that goes along with achievement. All they were taught was go get it, you deserve it, it’s yours, do whatever you need to do to get yours, “whatever it takes”.
Just like most parents today they think that taking away something material or a time out will some how teach the child a lesson. Without boundries (morals) all it will do is leave them wanting/demanding more.

First off there is only one moral that counts. The Golden rule: Treat others as you would hope to be treated.
As for my concentration of materialism instead of morality is, Where is the morality of making life so expensive that your children are force to go into debts that they may never get out of. Money is not everything but if you don't have any or it's owned to someone else. Your in trouble.
As for climbing the ladder in the workplace. I say what Ladder? There is no more job security. It hard to be loyal to workplace when it in turn will cut your job when the chips are down. Granted I must admit the boomer themselves have been caught up in this "corporate reorganization." Believe it was Kodak corp. that started a lot of it. Could be wrong. I you know better please correct me.
As for cheating. Please! People have been cheating since time in Memoriam. I can blame all Gens for that. It just you see more of that now because of the Internet and cell phones with cameras that can catch people doing the wrong thing.
With my hope for the market recession. My main motivations for it is 1. to get life in America affordable again for the basics. With included in my mind a small house, a small car, decent clothes, and food that's it. 2. To make sure my Gen, GenY and the millennials understand that debt is a very sharp double edged sword. It can help you get stuff that you need (ex. a home.) but if you abuse it you are going to pay a heavy price for it.
And with work ethic. The statement I made earlier about no job security answers part of this. But I also want to this accusation as a sub-sect of America. I'm a New Englander born and raised. We as a people are the most industrious people in America if not the world. You can't tell me about work ethic period. I know that there are a lot of kids in my Gen that are somewhat lazy. But not from where I'm from. We work HAAAA'd for our coin . And as a New Englander I know the only thing I deserve is my rights under our constitution.

[baystater]

Originally Posted by TnHilltopper

Harvester, do you attribute our extreme political correctness and victim worship to an egocentric viewpoint that was started by the baby boomers, or something external that was fed to them? I would also be curious to know when celebrity worship began to permeate our culture, as they slipped that one in while I wasn't paying attention.

Three letter: MTV (Music Televsion Channel)

[tablemtn]

These days it's all on cable or even in what used to be considered fairly serious newspapers and/or magazines.

Well, look at the media consolidation of the last 25 years. When the company that owns the news channel also owns the film studios where these celebrities are making movies, what do you expect to happen?

I guess you can sort of blame this on the Baby Boomers, since all the FCC chairmen since 1993 have been Boomers.

[RedNC]

Originally Posted by baystater

First off there is only one moral that counts. The Golden rule: Treat others as you would hope to be treated. .

That is something that is missing today. If that is something you believe in then why do so many gen(?) not believe in it?

Originally Posted by baystater

As for my concentration of materialism instead of morality is, Where is the morality of making life so expensive that your children are force to go into debts that they may never get out of. Money is not everything but if you don't have any or it's owned to someone else. Your in trouble.

Houses have always been expensive. People have always had to go into debt to afford a home. Start out small, condo, town home, fixer upper. Your parents didn’t start out at the top neither can you.

Originally Posted by baystater

As for climbing the ladder in the workplace. I say what Ladder? There is no more job security. It hard to be loyal to workplace when it in turn will cut your job when the chips are down. Granted I must admit the boomer themselves have been caught up in this "corporate reorganization." Believe it was Kodak corp. that started a lot of it. Could be wrong. I you know better please correct me.

You want some kind of guarantee before you are going to put in an effort. This is exactly why there is a problem. Your generation wants their reword before the work.
I can sympathize with wanting to know ahead of time that there is some kind of future outcome, but I believe it’s the gen(?) that have scared the businesses away not the boomers.
This is a two edge sward. The US needs a trained work force. But if those being trained see the existing work force being laid off they feel “why should I bother if there are no jobs waiting when I finish training?” I don’t have the answer.

Originally Posted by baystater

As for cheating. Please! People have been cheating since time in Memoriam. I can blame all Gens for that. It just you see more of that now because of the Internet and cell phones with cameras that can catch people doing the wrong thing.

Probably can’t blame all gen(?)’s for that, but why did they have to make that the one thing they excelled at?

Originally Posted by baystater

With my hope for the market recession. My main motivations for it is 1. to get life in America affordable again for the basics. With included in my mind a small house, a small car, decent clothes, and food that's it. 2. To make sure my Gen, GenY and the millennials understand that debt is a very sharp double edged sword. It can help you get stuff that you need (ex. a home.) but if you abuse it you are going to pay a heavy price for it.
And with work ethic. The statement I made earlier about no job security answers part of this. But I also want to this accusation as a sub-sect of America. I'm a New Englander born and raised. We as a people are the most industrious people in America if not the world. You can't tell me about work ethic period. I know that there are a lot of kids in my Gen that are somewhat lazy. But not from where I'm from. We work HAAAA'd for our coin . And as a New Englander I know the only thing I deserve is my rights under our constitution.

Do you actually think that a recession will effect everyone except you? Do you even know that a recession is like? I think you need to do some research on what a recession is and who is effected, because it isn’t like re-booting your game-boy and starting over.
Lets say you can afford a $50k house now, so you want a $300k house to be reduced to what you can afford.
In order for that to happen the entire economy would have to have a catastrophic collapse. That would mean mass unemployment and I mean NO jobs. Once that happened you would also be unemployed. In the recession scenario if you can’t afford the house now, you definitely wouldn’t be able to afford it during a recession.

You know I wish I had bought all the homes on my block back when they were new. I could have bought 10 for what I paid for mine, the only problem was when they were new I couldn’t have qualified for one much less 10.
Bottom line, houses have never been affordable, you have to “sacrifice” to get one. That means “do with out” some things. That is something that gen(?) have never had to deal with. And isn’t that sooooooo unfare.

[SDBreaux]

Originally Posted by cil

I so agree with you, especially what I have bolded, and that is why I feel that our generation has done *some* significant good for our country--and it is why I hold out hope for the future.
But Tablemtn makes important points, too.
We shall see.

I read somewhere a few months ago that Gen Y has the highest percentage of students entering college in decades. The birth rate among teens seems to have dipped slightly, too, including drug use. I think my generation - regardless how socially left it seems to appear at times - is actually seeking the "old days" in life that was never given to us. It must be human nature to seek out the best in life and, honestly, two-parent families (if you have kids) with educations is the healthiest way to live.

[SDBreaux]

Originally Posted by RedNC

Bottom line, houses have never been affordable, you have to “sacrifice” to get one. That means “do with out” some things. That is something that gen(?) have never had to deal with. And isn’t that sooooooo unfare.

Give Gen Y a break, most are in their late teens/early adult life. I'm pretty sure we're going to do some tremendous good in the future. American citizens will take this country back from the greedy eventually. We'll have to if we want to survive.

[TnHilltopper]

Originally Posted by TheHarvester

- we grew up with huge dreams of going to the Moon or making huge scientific breakthroughs or liberating women or reviving Christianity from its moribund status --- and for many of us we saw our dreams dashed repeatedly. I think this led to a cynicism that contributed to the ego-centric "me first" attitude, because the idealism seemed to have met with failure

I think this is one of the aspects of American culture that is sorely lacking. Idealism and a view of the world that goes beyond that which lay at our feet. For whatever reason, we now look at the future as being the next fiscal quarter instead of the next decade or generation.

The pace in which our culture now moves is something new to us and the rest of the world as Cil pointed out how we used to look at celebrities through print media and tabloids. Not that the events happened at a slower pace but the pace in which we became aware of them certainly sped up to the speed of light. As Cil also pointed out, "However, for every Sharpton or Jackson there are other men and women living quiet lives of good example. We just don't hear about them so much because they are not part of the publicity machine." I recall a journalist friend of mine saying, "If it bleeds it leads", referring to what makes the front page.

Baystater- Three letter: MTV (Music Televsion Channel) I remember watching the premier of MTV when they aired the video Video Killed The Radio Star, by the Buggles however the only reason I watched it was because I was grounded to the house and not allowed to go outside. (chuckling) I guess in my time, the worse punishment was having to be indoors.

One thing I don't understand is how the baby boomer generation, one that was filled with dreams as stated above have allowed or been complacent with an educational system that does not grant our youth the opportunity to dream. So much is emphasis is placed on spread sheet statistics to judge whether or not someone has acquired a certain level of education and none is given to things like art, music or other expressive forms of education. Knowledge for the sake of knowledge and without vision or dreams to direct it seems self defeating, unless of course you only need drones for the factory floor counting wigets.