It's all the babyboomers fault! (Clinton, Canada, dollars, school)

[RedNC]

Originally Posted by roseba

Bull dunky - The median household income in America is in the $46,000 range. That included NYC where startup houses cost over $500K. Going into debt is one thing. Facing near impossible debt is quite another. (The boomers did not have to face a housing market this honorous.)

If you want to use the median income in America then you should also use the median house price in America, which is $220,900.00.

If you can't afford to live in NYC then move somewhere where you can afford to live.

[tablemtn]

Thing is, the cost of higher education has been rising a LOT faster than the inflation rate for a long time now. In the past, it was possible for a college kid to work a part-time job, and pay off most of the cost of his tuition. Nowadays, it's more likely that the kid will rack up $50-$100K+ in debt to finance that education, or much more if grad school is involved. The idea of saddling young adults with massive debt right out of the starting gate is a new development in our society, and it does make things harder on a lot of them.

For one thing, those debt payments keep coming due, and they can't be discharged through bankruptcy. Losing a job isn't just a setback; it might be the first step on a quick road toward insolvency.

[baystater]

Originally Posted by tablemtn

Thing is, the cost of higher education has been rising a LOT faster than the inflation rate for a long time now. In the past, it was possible for a college kid to work a part-time job, and pay off most of the cost of his tuition. Nowadays, it's more likely that the kid will rack up $50-$100K+ in debt to finance that education, or much more if grad school is involved. The idea of saddling young adults with massive debt right out of the starting gate is a new development in our society, and it does make things harder on a lot of them.

For one thing, those debt payments keep coming due, and they can't be discharged through bankruptcy. Losing a job isn't just a setback; it might be the first step on a quick road toward insolvency.

Excellent post. On the nose.

As with the post of plastice surgery. I meant more about thinking one is cool. I don't get it. Honestly most people I know that are my age do really care if they relate to the pop culture of the young Gen and would we would never try to convince a younger Gen that the bands we listen to, or the cars we drove, or the clothes we wore where cool. But I been in conversation with boomer's telling me how, the Beatles were the best and that the cars were awesome, and the clothes had style. (Well except for the disco era. eeeeeekkkk!) No offense to disco fans. Like I said I don't get it.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by tablemtn

I do think it's ghoulish the way a lot of Boomers turn to plastic surgery and other modifications in an attempt to make themselves "look younger." It often fails, and ends up making them look like caricatures of youth.

I agree.

I'll go a step further and suggest that 55 year old men lose the backwards baseball cap, and their feminine counterparts might want to rethink the mini skirts (let alone belly shirts).
A lot of Boomers simply have not figured out an exit strategy.
I'm still figuring it out myself, but I know it will not involve plastic surgery.
It's as if we are dumbfounded at being half a century old, and can't come to terms with it.
This is stupid, we're not the first ones ever to turn 50.
Yet I am not ready to embrace Muzak, ya know? And I am so *over* classic rock.
One of my favorite bands is the White Stripes, and here I am with a lot more road behind me than ahead.

[baystater]

Originally Posted by cil

Yet I am not ready to embrace Muzak, ya know? And I am so *over* classic rock.
One of my favorite bands is the White Stripes, and here I am with a lot more road behind me than ahead.

No one is ready to embrace Muzak. As for the white strips. music is music. If you like it listen to and enjoy.

[Marodi]

I blame womens rights on obesity. Women working = less time to feed kids = McDonalds, microwaves and junk food. A = B = C

The cost of college IS getting rediculous. I think there should be a tuition increase rate equal to the previous years inflation rate. That way, tuition stays roughly the same but colleges don't get shafted by inflation. When tuition is double, triple or more than inflation, there is a problem.
However, that rate would only be applied to public colleges since private colleges would not be using tax money, they shouldn't be required to follow the same laws. Besides, economics shows that there would be a point that enrollment to private schools would drop off once they hit a certain limit above public schools. A name is only worth so much.

(sorry if it's wordy or has illogical sentances)

[TnHilltopper]

It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness...

The cost of education today is far greater, no one disputes this. They lowered the educational standards, raised the price of education then made it possible via student loans to allow anyone to qualify for money for college, not unlike the sub-prime housing market. Is this the fault of baby boomers, maybe indirectly. The baby boomer generation didn't set out one day with the intent of making life more costly for future generations, they like most generations were living for the moment.

The one possible similarity I see between the baby boomer generation and the current one is a political activism. I do have to give credit to the baby boomers for being both socially and politically aware in their youth, something that went sorely lacking from the mid 70's to current. I could very well be wrong (I often am) but I do see more young people who are political and socially aware.

Not many young people can foresee what life will be like when they themselves have families to raise, put through college, etc... and neither could the baby boomers. This is why there is so much importance on family and extended families as the youth have a lot to learn from the wisdom of previous generations, yet like most, we scoff at such things in our youth as we always see things from our own perspective. "The just don't understand" Of course when we all get older we realize our elders knew more than we ever gave them credit for.

Regardless of whose generation did what, or how we got to where we are, you have a choice to continue pointing a finger and externalizing blame(even if rightly so) or doing something about it. Our country goes through cycles like every other country, and some generations have the benefit of Horns-A-Plenty while others will grow up during times of despair and great poverty. Blame does not put food in your belly or get you through college, effort on the other hand does. Don't be one of those who stands in the rain and complain they are getting wet.

[baystater]

Originally Posted by TnHilltopper

It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness...

The cost of education today is far greater, no one disputes this. They lowered the educational standards, raised the price of education then made it possible via student loans to allow anyone to qualify for money for college, not unlike the sub-prime housing market. Is this the fault of baby boomer's, maybe indirectly. The baby boomer generation didn't set out one day with the intent of making life more costly for future generations, they like most generations were living for the moment.

The one possible similarity I see between the baby boomer generation and the current one is a political activism. I do have to give credit to the baby boomer's for being both socially and politically aware in their youth, something that went sorely lacking from the mid 70's to current. I could very well be wrong (I often am) but I do see more young people who are political and socially aware.

Not many young people can foresee what life will be like when they themselves have families to raise, put through college, etc... and neither could the baby boomer's. This is why there is so much importance on family and extended families as the youth have a lot to learn from the wisdom of previous generations, yet like most, we scoff at such things in our youth as we always see things from our own perspective. "The just don't understand" Of course when we all get older we realize our elders knew more than we ever gave them credit for.

Regardless of whose generation did what, or how we got to where we are, you have a choice to continue pointing a finger and externalizing blame(even if rightly so) or doing something about it. Our country goes through cycles like every other country, and some generations have the benefit of Horns-A-Plenty while others will grow up during times of despair and great poverty. Blame does not put food in your belly or get you through college, effort on the other hand does. Don't be one of those who stands in the rain and complain they are getting wet.

with the the cost of stuff:
It is not that they set out to make thing more costly for future Gens. There is now doubt that prices do go up moderately in a normal economy. But for the last decade or so we have not been in a normal economy. Look at the tech bubble unprecedented wealth creation followed by a huge hit on personal wealth when it came undone. Followed by the real estate bubble which help the market again reach unprecedented heights. Followed by what i believe will be a big crash. Except this time it going to involve a lot more people and a lot more of the economy is going to be effected. I was harping on earlier in this thread about how the housing cost are to high for us and that credit is far to easily used. We'll if things play out as I think they will in the next 2 -5 years. Maybe i won't be able to complain about either. But it didn't have to be this way. These bubbles and crashes could have been avoided by forward thinking of how they were going to effect us as a nation and our nation's future. But instead we (mostly boomer's looking for quick and big money for there retirements.) were lead like sheeople to a trough of greed. Not seeing the axe in the shepard's hand. That is why I will continue to harp on the boomer's irresponsible spending habits and debt creation for the past 10 years both in personal and government spending. They are leaving the monstrous bill for us to pay and that P.O. me.

With Activism:
I can and will accuse all Gen of current conversation with lack of will to really move our government back to the "peoples" control. I do understand why the babyboomer walked on the activism front. It hard to be enthusiastic when the government pushes back so hard against you. Let me ask all that are out there. Are you still willing to be arrested or get hurt physically for what you believe in? That's what use to happen sometimes. Now I'll give them some credit and getting some injustices purged. Granted I said earlier that I believe people give them to much credit for change America when really they didn't. Also let me at it hard to be involved in activism when life get in the way. when you got kids,car and house payment, school loans, and other responsibilities that do take up a lot of your time.
Now for Gen X I do understand that it hard to be enthusiastic about political change when all we get to vote for is the lesser of two evils. But I believe we must become much more politically aware as Gen because the alternative to that is be squashed like a bug by our own nations current culture.

With learning from prior Gens.
I have learned from a study and engagement with prior Gens and and i have decided that I will try to model my life after the Greatest Gen. I think Gen X, Y, and millenniums should to, minus the racism.

On getting wet:
Your right in the fact that just complain with not action doesn't get it. But sit back in silence when there are grievances don't do to it either. We still have the first amendment and Gen X will be heard.

[TnHilltopper]

Originally Posted by baystater

There is now doubt that prices do go up moderately in a normal economy. But for the last decade or so we have not been in a normal economy.

What exactly is a, "normal" economy?

History is replete with large economic swings as well as serious tumultuous times of war that threatened our very existence as a nation. During these times, those people living faced far greater hardship and difficulties merely surviving than anything we have faced during contemporary times. I recall my grandparents, (who were fairly well off during the 1920's compared to most) telling me how they only had meat once a week, usually a chicken. Hoovervilles, and shanty towns were people died of starvation on a day to day basis. These people did not concern themselves with the cost of education or whether there were economic bubbles, they were concerned with simply eating.

I don't mean to seem overly critical, but my age group were particularly self absorbed and divested from any sense of civic duty and I see the results of this course of action. (or inaction) One does not need to be a savvy political pundit or economic wizard to engage in civic awareness, but aware a person should be.

I am not sure how or when it has occurred but we have to remind ourselves that most people, of all generations are no longer engaged or even very aware of the political and economic climate that surrounds them. Just bring up a discussion about politics, economics, or religion at most dinner tables, parties or social functions and note the look of revulsion on people faces. That is one of the largest problems we face, is an open dialog about contemporary issues in mainstream conversation, and to refute the notion that it is impolite to disagree.

[baystater]

Originally Posted by TnHilltopper

What exactly is a, "normal" economy?

History is replete with large economic swings as well as serious tumultuous times of war that threatened our very existence as a nation. During these times, those people living faced far greater hardship and difficulties merely surviving than anything we have faced during contemporary times. I recall my grandparents, (who were fairly well off during the 1920's compared to most) telling me how they only had meat once a week, usually a chicken. Hoovervilles, and shanty towns were people died of starvation on a day to day basis. These people did not concern themselves with the cost of education or whether there were economic bubbles, they were concerned with simply eating.

DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE MILESTONES DJIA from 1906, Record High, Greatest Gains, Losses, Declines, Falls, Rises, 1896, Components, blue chips
Look at the milestones for 1995- 2007
True that market have had there shares of swings in history and you have your bull and bear markets. If I'm going to try to put a numbers on it YOY it should be about Maybe 10% to 15% . As for loses I've been taught a real bad bear market is say about 20% or more for six months or longer. If you anyone else got different figures Please put them out.
But again look at the growth since 1995 in the article. Thing look good don't they. Or do They? You clearly see the first half of this rise is because of the tech stocks until 2000 then you can see the continuation of this bubble with the real estate bubble. Unless there is another item we can make Bubblelicious we are going to take a hit. on this.
As for people starving and other thing that threatened the country. I'm not arguing with you about how bad it going to be if the current market crashes. I very much doubt a crash or recession would ever reach the levels of the 1929 crash. In fact if you would look back to my earlier posts I already said we would survive a crash (not that a depression likely) and probably be a better nation for it. My complaint is that the people of America (mostly boomer's) have been very foolish with there spending and credit habits. And if they would have just been more responsible with there money. The current threat of recession could have been avoided.