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View Poll Results: Your position on gay rights
I am a full supporter for all gay rights. 162 50.00%
I support some aspects of gay rights. 37 11.42%
I think that homosexuals and heterosexuals both have equal rights. 91 28.09%
I think that being gay is a sin, and therefore none of them should have rights. 34 10.49%
Voters: 324. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-16-2011, 12:02 PM
 
1,759 posts, read 2,025,240 times
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Quote:
Because they all share the same goals for equality, dignity, and understanding. And all deal with orientation or gender identity issues, so it made sense for them to band together as a group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
Transgender doesn't necessarily mean transsexual. Transsexuals are the ones who believe they were born in the wrong body and seek to fix it through surgery. All transsexuals are transgender. Not all transgenders are transsexual.
Hmmm. Fair enough on both counts, for the most part. Good answers without bitterness.
Now here's my question: a transgendered person who has not had surgery ...may never have surgery? Wouldn't they eventually want to complete the identification process?
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
3,849 posts, read 3,745,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
You do have the right to marry your mother, your brother or your sister, and you cannot marry a man and a woman, or two men, or two women either. So, apparently this so called right to marriage has its limitations, doesn't it. The topic is not so cut and dry as you thought eh?
Thing is, incest and polygamy are illegal because, in many different ways, they cause harm, either psychologically or physically, to one or more of the participants. Can you point to any harm caused, either to the participants or otherwise, by same sex marriage?
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Neither here nor there
14,810 posts, read 16,180,420 times
Reputation: 33001
Liberals, at least the ones posting here, are the most close-minded I have ever run across. There is NO tolerance (using the word loosely) for anyone who holds a differing view. Hell, there isn't even any tolerance for anyone willing to acknowledge that both sides have valid points. That the concept of WIN-WIN is rejected reveals an intolerance that is hidden in a lie.

Screw "equal rights for all". "My way or the highway" is more fitting.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:07 PM
 
1,759 posts, read 2,025,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsMcQ LV View Post
Really? Can you please explain why?

Why they should have full rights? Because they should not be, for example, kept from the hospital room when the other is sick, they shouldn't be denied tax benefits, etc.

I can go along with most of that. But sensitivity training is just that - teaching people to treat other people as people. If parents did more of that with their children while raising them, there might be less need of it in the workplace, the schools and such.

Could not agree more about parental responsibility but I also don't see the state nor the employer as the ones to rectify that. Way too "nanny."

And this Christian is going to disagree - in 50 years of Bible study, I've found no evidence that how one is born can be any kind of sin. And one is definitely born homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual or other. It is not a choice, it does no harm to others, thus it is not a sin.
Technically it is not that it is a sin to be homosexual, it is acting on that, according to the Christian belief (surely you ran across that in Bible study).
So no, being born a certain way isn't a sin.
However, just because something may not "do harm to others" doesn't mean it's not a sin. Some things harm our own souls and thus are sins.
I stand by my belief that gays are no better or worse than any of the rest of us in those pews; if we were saints we wouldn't need to go to church.
And again, God loves us equally and certainly does not "hate the gays" like some people either believe themselves or wish to think that all Christians believe.

Last edited by Alltheusernamesaretaken; 09-16-2011 at 12:19 PM..
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:08 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,812,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken View Post
Right, I know what it stands for.
But they are clearly two separate things.

There is a huge difference between being attracted to someone of the same sex
and
believing you were born the wrong sex and thereby surgical altering yourself to match such a belief.

They are apples and oranges.

It would be like lumping heterosexuals and agoraphobics together, for example.
I don't think it would be like lumping heterosexuals and agoraphobics together, because while transgenders are distinct from lesbians, gays and bisexuals, they face many of the same challenges. They are discriminated against, and a component of that discrimination is based on sexuality.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:11 PM
 
1,759 posts, read 2,025,240 times
Reputation: 950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunucu Beach View Post
Liberals, at least the ones posting here, are the most close-minded I have ever run across. There is NO tolerance (using the word loosely) for anyone who holds a differing view. Hell, there isn't even any tolerance for anyone willing to acknowledge that both sides have valid points. That the concept of WIN-WIN is rejected reveals an intolerance that is hidden in a lie.

Screw "equal rights for all". "My way or the highway" is more fitting.
I agree.

What I am seeing a lot of here (not from everyone but from the vocal majority) is "Be tolerant of those different from you!! Don't be such a bigot!!" and then nothing but rude, disrespectful comments about the feelings of anyone with differing views.
It is apparently the M.O. of C-D.

The fair, mature, and respectful ones know who they are, and we appreciate them.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:12 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,812,481 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunucu Beach View Post
Liberals, at least the ones posting here, are the most close-minded I have ever run across. There is NO tolerance (using the word loosely) for anyone who holds a differing view. Hell, there isn't even any tolerance for anyone willing to acknowledge that both sides have valid points. That the concept of WIN-WIN is rejected reveals an intolerance that is hidden in a lie.

Screw "equal rights for all". "My way or the highway" is more fitting.
I don't think that's a fair response.

The "separate but equal" argument is also intolerance hidden in a lie. And people arguing against that lie are just as ardent as those arguing for that lie.

I just happen to think that your "WIN-WIN" isn't a "WIN-WIN" at all.

I don't think that when we had "separate but equal" for people of different races, that the people who got the short end of the stick thought it was a "WIN" for them. Do you?
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
3,849 posts, read 3,745,894 times
Reputation: 1706
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
All of that deals with SPOUSES, and having a SPOUSE is NOT a right..

Try again.
So, because I could go into a hospital and tell them the patient was my husband, I could make medical decisions for him? But my friend Roger's partner (who he calls husband) couldn't? Simply because same sex marriage isn't "legal" in their state? The point Hammertime was trying to make was just that! Because they aren't allowed marriage in so many states, they are blocked from the rights and privileges that come with marriage.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
8,346 posts, read 7,031,314 times
Reputation: 2874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunucu Beach View Post
There is NO tolerance
I never claimed to have tolerance.

Stupidity is stupidity.

And those who can't see that gays are really no different except for how they have sex are stupid.


Quote:
Hell, there isn't even any tolerance for anyone willing to acknowledge that both sides have valid points.
Except they don't.

Children?

Idiotic point. Children are not a prerequisite of marriage.

Religion?

Idiotic point. Religion is a personal thing, and should be kept to their religious communities. It should not be used to oppress others.

Tradition?

Idiotic point. If we stuck to tradition, marriage would only be used for economic reasons. Traditions change. Get over it.

Quote:
"My way or the highway" is more fitting.
Pretty much. I don't care how you believe. It's when you take your beliefs and oppress others that it becomes a problem.

And no, gay marriage isn't going to change a freaking thing. It's not going to affect anyone's marriage, anyone's relationships, or anyone's morals.

People just need to grow up and get over their personal hangups and just let others live their freaking lives.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:17 PM
 
15,706 posts, read 11,746,741 times
Reputation: 7019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken View Post
Hmmm. Fair enough on both counts, for the most part. Good answers without bitterness.
Now here's my question: a transgendered person who has not had surgery ...may never have surgery? Wouldn't they eventually want to complete the identification process?
I guess it depends on the level of the issue, and their financial means to do it. Insurance doesn't pay for it and it's very expensive. Transsexuals are also required to live at least 2 years as the opposite sex prior to surgery to make sure they can handle the change. It doesn't work for everybody. Transsexuality is very very complicated and still not entirely understood, much like orientation.
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