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Old 11-24-2013, 08:15 AM
 
Location: No Mask For Me This Time, Either
5,632 posts, read 5,045,174 times
Reputation: 6035

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Public schools are not the problem, after all, other countries basically have hardly any private schools and still achieve very good results.
The problem in the US seems to be the way the public school system is run, any maybe even the existence of and competition with private schools, basically the elitist, class-oriented approach of many parents.
I will agree that there are public schools is not the problem, but in the way they are run more as political bodies with a heavily liberal agenda, compounded by the lack of interest by parents who use them as a daycare rather than taking an active interest in their child's education. Private schools are not a solution created and supported by elitists, but are an alternative sought by parents who care about their children's futures while still being forced at gunpoint to support the public trough. That I don't want my child being taught in a trailer or sitting next to illegals who cannot speak English and drag down the rest of the class or having individuals with discipline problems in her classroom is not a classist prejudice, but that of a parent who wants his child to have every opportunity at receiving a real education.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,072,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Exactly!

MUCH more on that, here:
The Other Crisis in American Education - The Atlantic

The college professor author and the studies he cites have tracked the problem down to U.S. schools' curricula backing away from academically challenging material and embracing more inclusive feel-good politically correct curricula, and the fact that classes are much less frequently grouped by skill/ability level which by necessity of getting the entire class to make academic progress, dumbs down the top and the middle.
Yup. Lower the bar and then pat ourselves on the back when the bottom tier is 2 points higher on the standardized tests saying we're making progress.
Then dismiss OECD rankings which compares us globally. Instead we'll compare one state to another within the US.

Mixed ability classes do not raise the low performing students.
You have to teach to the lowest common denominator so that all students pass.
Low performing students in a mixed ability class tend to not ask questions, not volunteer to do problems on the board, not ask for help. But these same low performing students open up when placed in a remedial class with their peers at the same skill level.

Heck though..I don't have a PhD and a cushy office in DC so what do I know ?

I don't blame parents one bit for pulling their kids out of public school.
They know enough about what goes on and care enough that they want their child educated.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:21 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,915 posts, read 24,551,676 times
Reputation: 9708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
I will agree that there are public schools is not the problem, but in the way they are run more as political bodies with a heavily liberal agenda, compounded by the lack of interest by parents who use them as a daycare rather than taking an active interest in their child's education. Private schools are not a solution created and supported by elitists, but are an alternative sought by parents who care about their children's futures while still being forced at gunpoint to support the public trough. That I don't want my child being taught in a trailer or sitting next to illegals who cannot speak English and drag down the rest of the class or having individuals with discipline problems in her classroom is not a classist prejudice, but that of a parent who wants his child to have every opportunity at receiving a real education.
I have never seen a public school in a trailer.

Immigrants both legal and illegal are a fact that has to be dealt with. I don't think educational gentrification is the right solution, to the contrary. If those you don't want your child to be in school with were distributed evenly across all schools, their negative influence on schools as a whole would be much less severe, which everyone would benefit from.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Texas
872 posts, read 822,138 times
Reputation: 938
I have always loved to read. I learned to read at an early age (thanks, Mom). I also taught my daughter and niece to read at an early age. The both of them love to read, as much as I do. Teacher's have a responsibility to teach, parents have a responsibility to make sure their Child is learning and to help expand what they have learned. It is NOT entirely up to the teacher.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:48 AM
 
Location: No Mask For Me This Time, Either
5,632 posts, read 5,045,174 times
Reputation: 6035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I have never seen a public school in a trailer.
Practically every school in our area, including ones built in recent years, has trailer classrooms added to accommodate the large number of students. And this number includes an alarmingly high quantity of the children of illegals who speak little English, consume a disproportionate amount of teachers' time, and who drag down the learning process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Immigrants both legal and illegal are a fact that has to be dealt with. I don't think educational gentrification is the right solution, to the contrary. If those you don't want your child to be in school with were distributed evenly across all schools, their negative influence on schools as a whole would be much less severe, which everyone would benefit from.
Then they could drag down all schools evenly, eh? I'll continue to send my child to a private school. She's in second grade. Last week's work included learning about the three dimensional coordinate system, supplemented by the students having a 3D printer in the classroom as a real world example of what they're learning. She can speak English and Russian fluently, switching without hesitation and is conversational in French. There are many students in the school with foreign born parents, so ethnicity is not an issue, but the difference is that all of the parents care about their children's education. No, I don't want her spending her learning time with the rabble with language or behavior problems. While the problems created by such children are concentrated in some school, an even distribution would benefit no one.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:51 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,390,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
No, most kids can read, and those that can't generally get extra help.
They can read small words like "stop", "no parking" but many cannot read simple prose.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:54 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,390,876 times
Reputation: 22464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I have never seen a public school in a trailer.

Immigrants both legal and illegal are a fact that has to be dealt with. I don't think educational gentrification is the right solution, to the contrary. If those you don't want your child to be in school with were distributed evenly across all schools, their negative influence on schools as a whole would be much less severe, which everyone would benefit from.
They're on every school here where I live. The problem with the immigrants is they pay no taxes but consume tons of resources --- and as they begin to outnumber the taxpayers, there are going to be problems. Believe it or not, it is not unusual for a girl still in high school to have children in the Head Start and pre-schools at the same public school. It's so bad they have day care centers at some of the high schools for the babies of the students.

Taxpayers are maxed out.
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:21 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,915 posts, read 24,551,676 times
Reputation: 9708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
Practically every school in our area, including ones built in recent years, has trailer classrooms added to accommodate the large number of students. And this number includes an alarmingly high quantity of the children of illegals who speak little English, consume a disproportionate amount of teachers' time, and who drag down the learning process.



Then they could drag down all schools evenly, eh? I'll continue to send my child to a private school. She's in second grade. Last week's work included learning about the three dimensional coordinate system, supplemented by the students having a 3D printer in the classroom as a real world example of what they're learning. She can speak English and Russian fluently, switching without hesitation and is conversational in French. There are many students in the school with foreign born parents, so ethnicity is not an issue, but the difference is that all of the parents care about their children's education. No, I don't want her spending her learning time with the rabble with language or behavior problems. While the problems created by such children are concentrated in some school, an even distribution would benefit no one.
I disagree. If the problem is as big as you say, it WILL cause huge problems for society as a whole anyway sooner or later, and way beyond school. If you think that your kids will not suffer from those problems just because they went to private school and thus belong to the elite (which is what they do whether or not you admit it), you might be in for a surprise.

I know that problem from other countries. However, in the US the educational gentrification goes hand in hand with the residential gentrification, which is not the case in most other countries, for instance in Europe.
And in the few cases where it does, for instance in infamous suburbs of Berlin or Paris, they have the same problems as bad US schools. Immigrant and other problematic students concentrate and outnumber "normal" students and from there it all goes downhill. Thus I am against that gentrification. In an analogy, it is like with a dose of poison that needs to be diluted. Everyone might get stomach pain for a while, but at least nobody dies from an overdose.
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:45 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,466 posts, read 44,182,584 times
Reputation: 13487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I have never seen a public school in a trailer.
Seriously?

My entire 2nd grade was spent in a trailer classroom about 200 yards from the school building, with GROSSLY insufficient heating and washroom capabilities. We all had to wear coats, hats, and mittens IN class all day.

Fast-forward 25 years and my high-school aged kids had to attend math classes in similar trailers due to an influx of illegal immigrants in our area (Chicago metro - illegal sanctuary region) bloating school registrations. By Illinois law, immigrants CANNOT be asked to show proof of legal residency status. That has mushroomed into school admin being afraid to even ask for proof of district residency.
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Old 11-24-2013, 10:25 AM
 
58,347 posts, read 26,683,019 times
Reputation: 14060
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
I live in a big city for half the year and a small town the other half. All the stores in both places have electronic cash registers. Registers that automatically calculate change have been around for decades. What world to YOU live in?
I live in the REAL world. And I NEVER said computer cash register DON'T exist. Typical response from posters like you. You make a broad statement then when called on it you get snarky.

If you can't stand to be refuted, don't paste making such broad assertions.
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