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Many people were living within their means quite comfortably before the economy tanked. Now they own homes that they can't sell to cut costs and even if they could they'd have to bring money to closing to get out. Couple that with the fact that many have taken pay cuts during the down turn, the cost of medical insurance has skyrocketed and their 401k has tanked. Comfortable has turned into paycheck to paycheck for lots of people.... even the "rich" ones.
I'm not a member of the "Party of Personal Responsibility", however, I am a practitioner. Some of this is their own fault. Some of these folks were living just inside their means previously. That is not a good practice.
I don't see that health ins. has "skyrocketed" any more than in the past. The 401K has nothing to do with every day living expenses.
I'm not a member of the "Party of Personal Responsibility", however, I am a practitioner. Some of this is their own fault. Some of these folks were living just inside their means previously. That is not a good practice.
I don't see that health ins. has "skyrocketed" any more than in the past. The 401K has nothing to do with every day living expenses.
Yes, some people in the 250K range were living just inside their means. So are many that make more or less than that income. But, many were not and now find themselves at that point.
The reality is that wages have been stagnant for 10 years. In that time health insurance costs have risen 131%, tuition for public universities have risen 50%, home values have declined 30% and 401k balances have declined. True, 401k has nothing to do with every day living expenses, but responsible folks have increased their retirement savings to try and recoup their losses. That does decrease the disposable income people have each month.
So, unless someone had a crystal ball 10 years ago, they can certainly find themselves in this position despite their best efforts to live within their means.
250k is technically upper middle class. For a single person, it would be fairly wealthy though, depending on where one lives. For a family, depending on cost of living, it may not be a whole lot.
A family of 4 making 250,000 living on the Upper East Side of Manhattan for example, would probably be comfortable if they didn't have a lavish lifestyle, by they would be by no means rich.
and quit with they "if the chose to live there"...I was born in brooklyn, and we moved out to WORKINGCLASS LONG ISLAND back in the early 60's when I was 5....
When you grew up it was your choice to stay there.
I love how people spin things
we talk about UNEMPLOYMENT, and suggest 'hey move to where the jobs are" and poeple say "dont taze me man"....then FLIP the page when we say how some area are more expensive and a 'one size fits all doesnt work" and you people say well move to a lower cost area....go figure
I agree that some areas are more expensive than others, but I also know that all metropolitan areas, including NY, LA, SF, and other expensive areas have places in their metro areas that are inexpensive. I live in Atlanta, which is pretty inexpensive IMO but we have VERY expensive areas, in the actual city especially, where most people cannot afford to live. I know plenty of people who moved to those areas anyway to be close to "ammenities." Some also say to live near better schools, which is the only reason I can understand but really I am not going to buy a home and put myself into the poor house just to live in a school that got a 9 rating when my neighborhood school gets an 8 rating. Also, there are usually cheaper options even in more expensive neighborhoods. One can bypass all of the associated cost of homeownership and rent to get in a good school district. Rent may be high but you won't have to worry about upkeep of the property and taxes.
IMO you are making excuses for people who are well off. Just like poor people make excuses for being on assistance. Lots of poor people could make better financial choices and not be in the situations they are in, it is the same for those making 250K and above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard
But there are areas of the country which are unique to certain careers. An actor successful in Hollywood would not do so well in Fargo when seeking (local) gainful employment. Likewise with my career, where my hometown, as beautiful as it is, offers neither job opportunities nor the standard of living that the area where I now live and work does. Home ownership here is more expensive. For what I paid for my home ($500K), I could have bought the entire block where I grew up and still had enough left over to build a playground or two. The same applies to my wife's profession.
That is when you either find a cheaper place to live in the area that is unique to your career or you change career path and move to Fargo and find a job.
Standard of living is relative and that is also an excuse IMO. What sort of "standard of living." Personally I feel that too many people think that since they achieved a certain level (be it education or wages or title) that they feel that they are now "too good" to live in a regular affordable neighborhood.
I also cannot believe that you cannot find a home in the general area of your home for nothing less than 500K. You may not want to live in those areas but because you chose not to live in those areas you make yourself house poor, simple as that.
I can afford to live in a much better neighborhood than I live in, but I chose not to because I know from when I was 20 something that nothing is guaranteed and I could be without a job in a heartbeat. My husband and I made a conscious choice to move into a house that we could afford on one of our incomes, not both so as to have some breathing room in our finances or if one of us lost our jobs, which did happend during the economic downturn. We were able to keep paying our mortgage without problems because of that decision we made years ago.
I'm thankful, and realize we're fortunate (but that's a matter of applied hard work) that we are able to do what we do. But it's certainly not a matter of us being "rich". Well off? It's all relative - next to Bill Gates I'm a pauper, compared to the guy on the corner I'm living the high life. I consider us to be upper middle class at most.
I do feel that those making 250K are well off, personally I don't believe they are rich, but they are rich compared to the majority of Americans and for many to not think that they are when making this kind of money is very strange to me.
Yes, some people in the 250K range were living just inside their means. So are many that make more or less than that income. But, many were not and now find themselves at that point.
The reality is that wages have been stagnant for 10 years. In that time health insurance costs have risen 131%, tuition for public universities have risen 50%, home values have declined 30% and 401k balances have declined. True, 401k has nothing to do with every day living expenses, but responsible folks have increased their retirement savings to try and recoup their losses. That does decrease the disposable income people have each month.
So, unless someone had a crystal ball 10 years ago, they can certainly find themselves in this position despite their best efforts to live within their means.
That is everyone's problem, not just the problem of those who make $250K. A declining home value has nothing to do with one's daily living expenses, either, unless the home has to be sold (as in a job transfer).
the United States now MANDATES that EVERYONE who is having difficuly should MOVE to Mississippi, since it is the cheapest place to live
sorry, but the real answer is you move to where the jobs are( and where the good schools are)....long island has some of the best schools in the country
That is everyone's problem, not just the problem of those who make $250K. A declining home value has nothing to do with one's daily living expenses, either, unless the home has to be sold (as in a job transfer).
Declining home value is an issue. A mortgage payment is typically the largest bill paid each month. In past years, when people felt uncomfortable about living too close to their means, selling their house and downsizing was a common solution. Today that's not an option for many people. Even if they could find a buyer, they are faced with doing a short sale and ruining their credit or coming to closing with cash in hand. Many that would like to be back in the position of living below their means have no way to get there!
Declining home value is an issue. A mortgage payment is typically the largest bill paid each month. In past years, when people felt uncomfortable about living too close to their means, selling their house and downsizing was a common solution. Today that's not an option for many people. Even if they could find a buyer, they are faced with doing a short sale and ruining their credit or coming to closing with cash in hand. Many that would like to be back in the position of living below their means have no way to get there!
I've been in my house 22 years. In that time, most of my neighbors have remained the same; those that moved have either taken jobs out of state or gotten divorced, for the most part. A few have retired, or just wanted a newer house. Point is, I don't know a lot of people who go to the expense (b/c it's always an expense) to sell a house and move into another one to cut down their mortgage payment. I will say, most of my neighbors, while probably not making $250K+ are in the "affluent working" category described by another poster.
Lots of poor people could make better financial choices and not be in the situations they are in, it is the same for those making 250K and above.
This is a good point because the thread is now off topic. We've all heard about the rich rockstar that blew all his cash and is now destitute. That can happen at any level of income. I think people don't like the idea of knowing that they make more than 98% of the people in their country, yet are still having a hard time getting by. Who can they blame? So they relate all their stories of struggle and so on and try to claim they are middle class.
But the thread isn't "can you avoid all difficulty and risk in life by making $250k", it's about where a certain income level gets placed on the class scale. If you are in the top 2% of income in the country, that is clearly and unequivocally upper, regardless of how it may feel.
Based on the poll data, more than 60% of the people frequenting this forum want somebody else to support them.
BTW Bill Clinton just slammed the boy president badly.
Vote the bum out!
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