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If the Arabs and Jews in 1948 would have fought each other, then none of these threads would exist. If the bordering countries simply supplied arms, then again we would not be having these threads. The Arabs could have stated their independence and named it whatever. Instead the surrounding Arab nations crossed the border of the mandate and attacked the Jews from multiple sides. They told the Arabs living in the mandate to leave and that they would be able to return once all the Jews were dead. Thus the Arabs never had the chance to declare themselves thanks to the bordering Arab nations. In 1949 when the Armistance lines were drawn, the Arabs could have had a state at that point. Instead Gaza and Judea/Samaria were annexed by Egypt & Jordan. The US gov't had no part of this. We are at this juncture because the Arabs of the mandate still want it all.Gaza and Judea/Samaria were taken from Egypt & Jordan and not from any independant Palestinian country. The Palestinians could have worked out a deal over the past 40ish years with the Israelis. But each and everytime they came near a resolution the Arab leaderships added more items to their wish list.
If for some reason you think Israel could be undone, Then Belarus also needs to undone. The Jews could not move back to Poland because the Russians made everything east of bialastok into another country. Thus any returnees had no land to return too since it was in another country and all deed records were destroyed.
Thus the Arabs fought people in 1948 that had no where to go and now the Israelis are fighting Arabs who are not wanted in any other Arab country and also have no where to go. But the main difference here is that the Palestinians wont settle for some over nothing, while the Israelis did.
BINGO!
Arabs themselves are the authors of this mess with the U.S. et-al perhaps having screenwriting credits. Iran and others claiming the holocaust never happened should tell you all you need to know about giving Arabs more leverage in the region.
Why are the United States, Canada, European Union and Russia opposed to Palestine's bid to acheive statehood? I've been reading the online newspapers reading about how these states are opposed to Palestine's bid in the UN, but the newspapers don't explain the background and why they're opposed. Does Palestinian statehood encroach or compromise Israeli territory, sovereignty, or something?
I can't speak for anybody but the USA. President Obama's concern will fall right along the lines of his support for such causes and yet appear to be working against it. I can quote two examples here. President Obama was opposed to Don't Ask Don't Tell policy in the US military. However, he wanted to follow the procedural precedence. He also supports the Tibetan cause, and yet to many he appeared to push Dalai Lama aside on one occasion. To me, this was an effort to create a bridge to engage with China than show downright hostility (it never makes for a good solution). Unfortunately, people's perception of such decisions rests entirely on the surface.
Palestinian cause is no different. Without having seen the details (and feel free to test my assumptions about the US decision as you see more on the issue), I would say that any opposition to Palestinian demand would be to help in the Palestinian cause. Replace Palestine by Tibet and Israel by China, and you will see my point. Allowing Palestine representation in the UN as a state would only add to the friction and get in the way of dialogue between Israel and Palestinian authority. Because, after all, getting that status doesn't really get a Palestine state. It remains a lip service.
If this were about recognizing Palestinian State with well defined boundaries (another issue being missed), you can bet that the President of the USA would not be opposed to it. Do Palestinian authorities want a dialogue to create a state with boundaries going back to a logical period in time, working with Israel? Or, do they want to settle for the boundaries that exist today (and continue to shrink)?
I know that the stance of US will be misunderstood by much of the world, and misrepresented by fundamentalists in the Middle East and here at home. But think about it about what would be accomplished and what would be at stake for Palestine if the lip service were afforded today. This is where Obama shines IMO, but greatly misunderstood, and his lack for clear explanation on such issues is nobody's but his fault. He is not the typical politician.
PS. Just noticed Moth's post (#11) above and he has some of my points covered.
Why are the United States, Canada, European Union and Russia opposed to Palestine's bid to acheive statehood? I've been reading the online newspapers reading about how these states are opposed to Palestine's bid in the UN, but the newspapers don't explain the background and why they're opposed. Does Palestinian statehood encroach or compromise Israeli territory, sovereignty, or something?
I am not sure. Good question. Pity that most posters will not 'man up' and simply say they are not sure, instead of making up stuff.
However, I will say that it appears that the US, EU, etc., maintain that Palestine does not satisfy the definition of a 'state', to wit:
1) The state must possess a permanent population;
2) The state must have a defined territory;
3) The state must have the capacity to enter into relations with the other states.
I guess that numbers 2 and 3 are not satisfied, since there is not a 'defined' territory as yet, and I am not sure who 'runs' the two parts of what is considered Palestine (Hamas or Abbas?).
I will note that Palestine announced that it was a 'state' back in 1988 or so (back when it was united under Arafat). A 'state' can certainly exist independent of the United Nations recognition (some say the UN recognized Palestine when it made its announcement by responding to said announcement). Note that the country of Taiwan, which certainly considers itself a 'state', is not a UN member.
It is, for certain, a lot of politics. I have a feeling that even if the Palestinians got their act together the US would still veto membership status, and will not do otherwise until a firm agreement has been entered into between Israel and Palestine.
There are NO "Palestinians". Where was all the talk when that area belong to other ARAB nations?
It didn't. It belonged (politically) to Turkey and then the United Kingdom. Neither of those powers displaced the Arab population and drove them off their land; the Israelis did that.
And there was plenty of Arab "talk" about self-determination when the Arabs helped the UK drive the Turks out of the area. Look it up and then come back.
Iran and others claiming the holocaust never happened should tell you all you need to know about giving Arabs more leverage in the region.
What does Iran have to do with "Arabs"? And what is the point of trying to avert a second holocaust by housing a large percentage of Jews in one country in an unfriendly neighborhood?
What does Iran have to do with "Arabs"? And what is the point of trying to avert a second holocaust by housing a large percentage of Jews in one country in an unfriendly neighborhood?
LOL. That reminds me of a comedy group I watched in 2006... "The Axis of Evil". They're good!
I will note that Palestine announced that it was a 'state' back in 1988
Actually they announced it in 1948. Problem is they included the Israeli parts in their proclamation. It was called All-Palestine. It was lead by Amin Al-Husayni (Mufti of Jerusalem allied with the Nazis).
It was only recognised by Arab countries. It was dissolved by Egypt in 1959.
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