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Old 10-04-2011, 09:45 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,930,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Ok keep your head buried in the sand, if that is your choice. Your mind is like a steel box...Nothing penetrates...I'm done with wasting my time on you.

That is the problem when you attempt to dictate something to another rather than discuss. You are the one making absolute claims, many are saying such is not evident (and this was shown by many conflicts in the various claims made). I deny nothing, what I require is proper science, something you have not been practicing. You have been preaching from a pulpit and demanding subservience and when anyone questions, you dismiss them and ridicule them with petty name calling and attacks.

You have been simply following a policy of... "If you can't convert them, attack them" and it is pure political garbage.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,513 posts, read 37,061,236 times
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The evidence for warming just keeps accumulating...

As if the news about the Arctic's ozone hole outsizing the hole in Antarctica in early 2011 for the first time wasn't bad enough, Tuesday, NASA officials released more bad news. Sea ice covering the Arctic Ocean reached its second lowest level in recorded history in September.
Arctic Sea Ice Continues to Decline, Hits Near Record Low - International Business Times
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:59 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,491,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
The evidence for warming just keeps accumulating...

As if the news about the Arctic's ozone hole outsizing the hole in Antarctica in early 2011 for the first time wasn't bad enough, Tuesday, NASA officials released more bad news. Sea ice covering the Arctic Ocean reached its second lowest level in recorded history in September.
Arctic Sea Ice Continues to Decline, Hits Near Record Low - International Business Times

San, you know I agree with you about many things. But here is one point where I will somewhat disagree.

I don't disagree with the science so much as the interpretation of what it all means. An important point to remember is that there are several hundred variables that effect the climate, and we don't know how they interact or even what many of them are.

We do know things are getting warmer, and there is a theoretical basis to believe that human induced climate change could make them warmer then they would otherwise be.

We don't know with any certainty what the climate will be like in a decade. We don't know if it will be warmer or cooler. If man made warming occurs, we don't know if that will be a mitigating factor for a cooling climate, or an aggrivating factor for a warming climate. It could be irrelevent.

Skeptic Magazine did a good job a few years back posting two essay's describing both sides of the issue.

My only real point of disagreement with you is that you imply that skepticims is illigitimate in the debate. I consider it a legitimate point of view, whether or not it is correct.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,513 posts, read 37,061,236 times
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I'm also a skeptic as you well know, but when it comes to climate change the only thing I'm skeptical about is the claim that it is caused by man's activities. I really don't see any solid evidence pointing to that theory, but I have no doubt that whatever the cause, our climate is warming.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:31 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,491,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I'm also a skeptic as you well know, but when it comes to climate change the only thing I'm skeptical about is the claim that it is caused by man's activities. I really don't see any solid evidence pointing to that theory, but I have no doubt that whatever the cause, our climate is warming.
Oh, well we don't disagree at all then. I guess I misread you - sorry.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:11 PM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,930,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
The evidence for warming just keeps accumulating...

As if the news about the Arctic's ozone hole outsizing the hole in Antarctica in early 2011 for the first time wasn't bad enough, Tuesday, NASA officials released more bad news. Sea ice covering the Arctic Ocean reached its second lowest level in recorded history in September.
Arctic Sea Ice Continues to Decline, Hits Near Record Low - International Business Times

All links are cited through their graphs URL (right click and follow it back to the reporting agency).






http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/seaice/extent/AMSRE_Sea_Ice_Area.png (broken link)







The above has a sensor error at the moment, but you can see that its minimum was the same as the others.












And if you want to check the actual numbers:

http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/seaice/extent/plot.csv




You keep reading the media reports, I will stick to the actual agencies:

Last edited by Nomander; 10-04-2011 at 08:19 PM..
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:16 PM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,930,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I'm also a skeptic as you well know, but when it comes to climate change the only thing I'm skeptical about is the claim that it is caused by man's activities. I really don't see any solid evidence pointing to that theory, but I have no doubt that whatever the cause, our climate is warming.
Warming when?

Right now, we aren't warming, we have actually stagnated. Have we warmed in the last 30 years? Sure... but do you honestly expect us to look at that small of a snap shot and say it validates the claim that it is unprecedented? If not, and you then say we should go to the other forms of evaluating trends throughout history, well... that is where we get into issues with arguments concerning noise vs an actual signal and many other methods that attempt to find correlations between past cycles and now.

I know of very few skeptics who argue that we haven't warmed (ones who actually follow the science) over the years, the issue as I said is more of "how much", "what is the cause", and if it is significant. That is where the skeptical argument lies and that isn't even getting to the contribution arguments.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:23 PM
 
4,042 posts, read 3,522,864 times
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Climate Change is so very controversial because the Earth really IS in a warmer phase, just as a female has cycles and like in menopause a woman often is warmer.
This planet has been as warm as it is now, perhaps warmer before, and will be cooler again, yada yada.

What the problem is that we have subversive radicals that are using the true term of "climate Change" as part of a nutty, political agenda.

Yes, the Earth is warmer, but NO, this is not the fault of man or modern technology. In fact, it is true that we are right now in a solar cycle that many scientists are very concerned about, fearing we may finally be soon suffering another "Carrington" event which has not happened since the telegraph was the only technology we had.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:36 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
46,009 posts, read 53,318,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
You keep reading the media reports, I will stick to the actual agencies:
Seems like those graphs just proved sansper's point. 2011 is the 2nd lowest (though in some of the graphs it looks close to 2008).
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,513 posts, read 37,061,236 times
Reputation: 13985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
All links are cited through their graphs URL (right click and follow it back to the reporting agency).














The above has a sensor error at the moment, but you can see that its minimum was the same as the others.

Uh, have you ever heard of a thing called winter? The graphs you posted just confirm what I just posted.












And if you want to check the actual numbers:

http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/seaice/extent/plot.csv




You keep reading the media reports, I will stick to the actual agencies:

The graphs you posted confirm what I just posted...Sea ice covering the Arctic Ocean reached its second lowest level in recorded history in September... The lowest was in 2007... By the way your link leads nowhere.
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