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I agree it should be about socioeconomics than race. The notion that the child of wealthy black parents in DC is somehow more disadvantaged than a poor white in Baltimore is absurd.
I agree.
The only caveat to that would be that something tends to go on across the board with the SATs. They tend NOT to correlate with college performance in kids of color, GPA is the much better indicator.
Also, there have been studies where you tell minorities a test is just for, say, testing the questions, and they score higher than if you tell them the test measures intelligence. It suggests that when it comes to high stakes testings, kids of color tend to psyche themselves out, believing they won't/can't do well. Research is still early on this stuff though.
In any case, there needs to be some accounting that schools in poorer districts, regardless of race, do not have the same amount of AP, IB, test prep opportunities, etc. Not to mention the parents are less likely to be educated themselves and are unable/unwilling to bring up their children to be highly successful in school, nor are they likely to know anything about what it takes to get into a competitive college. A kid who is smart in that environment is not likely to have the same grades as his/her counterpart in a higher tax bracket.
Actually yes. Just look at lawsuits brought up against the cops and firemen.
Civil Service tests have been changed when too many minorities fail them and in some cases dropped so they can hire a "diverse" set of employees.
Yes, it's ok to be subpar because we've lowered the bar for you and treat you special.
Are there any statistics indicating that the number of victims per accident, fire etc. has risen due to those lower standards?
How do you "help" someone get in without lowering standards?
Ask the army of privileged white students who could afford a private or group math tutor, English tutor, SAT tutoring and coaching, ACT coaching.
Ask them if all that money spent to give them an upper hand resulted in the lowering of standards or the admittance of marginal students let in due to the ability to pay for the preparation.
Germany's manufacturing base is still firmly intact, but that's a whole different ball of wax.
It's sort of like Detroit in the 80-90's. You could get a great job at a factory out of high school, work overtime, get your car on the A-plan and have a pretty good life making $60-70k a year...it's gone, or at least going now.
Hell, even the jobs like telemarketing, that you just needed to be able to speak english are going...
Indeed. Whenever I read job ads these days I think to myself, gee, I am really lucky I don't have to apply for a job anymore. They expect so much these days, even for seemingly simple jobs
Spare me the BS. I know you want this to be a racial issue, but it's not. There are plenty of poor white people.
Why is it that anytime someone gets caught in their b.s., they want to get defensive..LOL
No spare intelligent people your b.s., yeah their are plenty of poor white people and you won't see them in large numbers at Berkley or any other top tier institution. They won't be there for the same reason a majority of the black population won't be there, they can't afford the academic coaching and tutoring necessary for them to get there.
Now you'll tell us that there are as many poor whites in the country as poor blacks, if you don't have the intelligence to comprehend that this whole issue is based on race and class, there's no further need to question your intelligence, you have already answered that question.
It's actually an offense to educated people of color on every level. It implies (and I know several from the group and it wasn't their intention) that minority accomplishments are worth less. It's more dangerous if people start to question the competency of black, latino, asian lawyers, doctors, engineers off the assumption that they 'got over' on the system somehow.
Unfortunately, it does imply their accomplishment is worth less, and when it comes time to make an important decision, their competency will come into play.
If I need an operation, and I have a choice between a black doctor or a white doctor, and it's common knowledge that medical schools have lowered their admission standards for minorities, I'm going to choose who I percieve to be the most competent doctor.
That might not be fair, but if the nations universities attempt to "even up" the playing field by creating lower standards for minorities their will be a natural backlash.
Why is it that anytime someone gets caught in their b.s., they want to get defensive..LOL
Kind of like you're doing now? You throw out an idiotic generalization, I counter it, and you spend 3 paragraphs insulting my intelligence, then accuse me of getting defensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconmark
No spare intelligent people your b.s., yeah their are plenty of poor white people and you won't see them in large numbers at Berkley or any other top tier institution. They won't be there for the same reason a majority of the black population won't be there, they can't afford the academic coaching and tutoring necessary for them to get there.
Uh yeah, DUH. So what is this: "Ask the army of privileged white students who could afford a private or group math tutor, English tutor, SAT tutoring and coaching, ACT coaching."
Sounds like you tried to make it a racial issue and now you're backtracking and arguing the exact opposite in order to avoid looking stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconmark
Now you'll tell us that there are as many poor whites in the country as poor blacks, if you don't have the intelligence to comprehend that this whole issue is based on race and class, there's no further need to question your intelligence, you have already answered that question.
So is it a race issue or a class issue? And if it's not a race issue, why the hell did you portray it as one?
Unfortunately, it does imply their accomplishment is worth less, and when it comes time to make an important decision, their competency will come into play.
If I need an operation, and I have a choice between a black doctor or a white doctor, and it's common knowledge that medical schools have lowered their admission standards for minorities, I'm going to choose who I percieve to be the most competent doctor.
And what goes into this perception of competence? How they dress? If they look like you?
That might not be fair, but if the nations universities attempt to "even up" the playing field by creating lower standards for minorities their will be a natural backlash.
Wow...that's the problem. You'd assume that the med school could have lowered their standards for the minority physician, but never for the white doc?
How do you choose who's the most competent doctor?
Even IF a med school lowered their standards a bit to get in it doesn't mean they didn't get out on their own merit.
Do the medical boards get lowered? does the united states medical licensing exam get lowered? Hell, do patients of minority doctors try harder not to get sick to lower the standards for minority physicians?
Kind of like you're doing now? You throw out an idiotic generalization, I counter it, and you spend 3 paragraphs insulting my intelligence, then accuse me of getting defensive.
Uh yeah, DUH. So what is this: "Ask the army of privileged white students who could afford a private or group math tutor, English tutor, SAT tutoring and coaching, ACT coaching."
Sounds like you tried to make it a racial issue and now you're backtracking and arguing the exact opposite in order to avoid looking stupid.
So is it a race issue or a class issue? And if it's not a race issue, why the hell did you portray it as one?
Are you so dim witted as to be unable to comprehend the word "AND".
The topic is that somehow black people are given a preference and the bar being lowered, however most intelligent people realise race AND class are indelibly intertwined.
You further demonstrate your limited intellect when you feebly attempt to suggest that I contradicted myself when I stated " an army of white," etc.
I made it abundantly plain to those with the power of reading comprehension that there are many poor white but many more poor blacks.
The overwhelming amount of wealth in the hands of the upper middle class and uber rich is another way of saying that it is in the hands of white people, again if you can't comprehend the world you live in why is it anyone else's fault.
Exactly where is a "generalization that I made, do you really even know the meaning of the word.
List this imaginary "generalization", it'll prolong my amusement at making you seem wholly unable to support your assertions.
Children Of Alumni Favored In College Admissions
January 12, 2011
A new study has found that legacy applicants stand a far better chance of being accepted to elite colleges than those who have no family connections.
The New York Times reports that the study found that applicants to a parent's alma mater were about seven times more likely to be accepted than nonlegacy applicants. Children Of Alumni Favored In College Admissions
I'm done with you, I can only argue down for so long.
Now my original statement to more able posters. Does average and/or borderline white students get in because their parents can afford the services of academic coaches and tutors, does the admittance of legacy white students gaurantee that marginal students get admitted?
How is this not lowering the bar in general and for white students in particular?
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