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I had elective surgery in the U.K. a few years ago. If I had had it done here in the U.S., it would have cost well over $100,000. In the U.K., it was $7500. And no, it wasn't in a government facility. It was in a private hospital. The price included three nights in a private hospital room, and all of my meals.
Our health care costs are out of control. Anyone who can't see that is blind.
I had a penis reduction operation about 10 years ago in Basel for $7500. Never felt better. And grass burrs are no longer a problem. Thank you Switzerland!
Especially facts that refute the O/P's assertion that health care in the U.S. is superior to the Netherlands. Haar!
There are specialists all over the world and if your problem is one they deal with, that's where you go.
Health care in the USA is very good .... if you have good insurance or a lot of money. Most people actually do have okay insurance and they get decent health care as a result. Definitely equivalent to what you will get in Europe. But we also have people who do not have access to good health care for a variety of reasons and who use the ER as their primary care physician.
Health care in Europe is also very good. Access to it is probably broader than in the USA and it also costs a lot less on an average per-capita basis. I would never pretend that European health care is better than what we have here. But neither is it any worse. It is the cost factor that is the key differentiator.
The OP's use of a Princess to illustrate his case is rather misleading. There are a group of people in this world for whom cost is no obstacle. They will go where they need to go and pay what they need to pay to get the very best. It just so happens that, in this case, the best was in Los Angeles. For a different condition, the best might have been in Paris or London.
Health care in the USA is very good .... if you have good insurance or a lot of money. Most people actually do have okay insurance and they get decent health care as a result. Definitely equivalent to what you will get in Europe. But we also have people who do not have access to good health care for a variety of reasons and who use the ER as their primary care physician.
Health care in Europe is also very good. Access to it is probably broader than in the USA and it also costs a lot less on an average per-capita basis. I would never pretend that European health care is better than what we have here. But neither is it any worse. It is the cost factor that is the key differentiator.
The OP's use of a Princess to illustrate his case is rather misleading. There are a group of people in this world for whom cost is no obstacle. They will go where they need to go and pay what they need to pay to get the very best. It just so happens that, in this case, the best was in Los Angeles. For a different condition, the best might have been in Paris or London.
Thank you; that is exactly the point I was attempting to make!
Providing the universities to train doctors and then providing the opportunity for those doctors to specialize along with the facilities and state of the art equipment for them to get hands-on experience the U.S. does very well.
Providing or facilitating at reasonable cost, a higher level of care across the entire population spectrum, the U.S. does not do well.
When a volunteer organization founded to provide care to remote jungle areas in third world countries tries an experiment and sets up shop in Tennessee instead and is surprised at the response from people hundreds of miles away; that should speak volumes to all those who have no problem insisting it's the responsibility of the individual to provide his own family health care.
The fact has become irrefutable that for many of the working poor who are not substance abusers but truck drivers etc., they cannot afford to provide an ADEQUATE level of health insurance AND pay the bills.
Your obsession with all things "socialistic" in nature being an anethma has blinded you to the reality of health insurance costs running amock and your willingness to leave a significant portion of your society exposed to the results of being underinsured.
Your country can provide multi-generational welfare, schooling and other benefits for illegal aliens, bail out a car maker or a bank and those things along with a host of other provisions are not socialisitc in nature while providing Universal Health Insurance for all somehow tips the scales in favour of punishing your own citizens.
I just don't get that disconnect when it impacts your own people so harshly.
I live in the US and HAPPILY travel abroad for medical services. I also happily go to any Dutch hospital since their hygienic standards are exceptional.
I do so because the cost of the medical service provided plus the cost of the flight is usually LESS than my co-pay and deductible here.
What is your relative's health issue? We really can't judge the cruelty of our system without this important info.
Why the sarcasm, pal? I can assure whatever the issue, you wouldn't feel that way if it were YOUR family member.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
They can also afford the best housing, best clothes, best tickets for concerts and sporting events, and best food.
I guess those are next on the agenda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
This is an excellent point.
Your longevity and quality of life are determined FAR MORE by those kind of things than your ability to see a doctor because of your toenail fungus.
So why aren't we trying to give everyone free food, free personal chefs, free personal trainers, free HEPA filters...?
These kinds of things affect your overall health much more dramatically than your healthcare.
No, it is not an excellent point. It's a strawman point. We're not talking about housing, clothes, tickets to concerts and sporting events, or food. We're talking about health care.
This thread reminds me of a trip I made a decade ago to Bali, Indonesia.
Some of the residents of Bali were pointing out that they had several outstandingly gorgeous 5 star hotels. I mean really luxurious and sumptuous resorts with extraordinary amenities. It was pointed out that they were better than anything in my American city (which is true) or possibly anywhere in the US (which is debatable).
Does the average Indonesian stay at these super-luxury resorts? Of course not: the cost of one night is equal what a working Indonesian would earn in 4 months!
I live just a few blocks away from the University of Pennsylvania Medical Center which includes the new billion dollar Perelmen Center for Advanced Medicine, Silverstein Pavilion, Philadelphia Children's Hospital, etc. These are near the very top of hospitals in all of North America, according to US NEWS & WORLD REPORT ... of the same stature as the Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins, Columbia Presbyterian, and Barnes Jewish. Superb world class hospitals. If you don't have adequate health insurance coverage or lots and lots of money, these facilities might as well be in Bali, Indonesia. Just a mile from this medical complex are poor children in West Philly suffering from hunger and malnutrition, diabetics who cannot afford insulin, people suffering from parasitic diseases, someone will die because they could not get a 'flu shot.
I live just a few blocks away from the University of Pennsylvania Medical Center which includes the new billion dollar Perelmen Center for Advanced Medicine, Silverstein Pavilion, Philadelphia Children's Hospital, etc. These are near the very top of hospitals in all of North America, according to US NEWS & WORLD REPORT ... of the same stature as the Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins, Columbia Presbyterian, and Barnes Jewish. Superb world class hospitals. If you don't have adequate health insurance coverage or lots and lots of money, these facilities might as well be in Bali, Indonesia. Just a mile from this medical complex are poor children in West Philly suffering from hunger and malnutrition, diabetics who cannot afford insulin, people suffering from parasitic diseases, someone will die because they could not get a 'flu shot.
But, isn't that the point? WHY don't they accept medicare, as well as the Donald Trump that comes through the door?
I thought that was one of the things the U.S. held dear was the refuting of discrimination of those of lesser status. You rejected the Monarchy due to the abhorrance of class distinction didn't you?
Or was it just about the taxes?
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