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View Poll Results: Do you agree with Herb Cain's plan?
Yes, increase taxes on the poor and cut taxes on the rich 13 28.89%
No, that's crazy 32 71.11%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-03-2011, 02:00 PM
 
2,963 posts, read 6,249,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
Yet more disingenuous drivel from the left.
CSM is drivel from the left?
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,431,094 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin View Post
The chart was total taxes paid, not just federal income tax alone.
ok but TOTAL taxes is bs

let's look at MY bracket

I make 60k...the ACTUALY bracket I fall into is the 15% bracket...but once you deduct the 'standard deduction OR the itemized deduction, and then the family size (exemptions) you end up with less than 40k to be taxed

YET if I count ALL TOTAL taxes....Ias a 60k person who pays 12k fro property taxes...just the property tax is 20%

FACT, the chart saying 17% for 55k is FALSE

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Old 10-03-2011, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,431,094 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin View Post
Don't you find it ironic that this guys name is workingclasshero yet the only thing I see him agree with are things that will benefit the rich and hurt the poor such as Cain's 999 plan?
I find it ironic that you never READ my post

where did I say I agree with cain or his plan????

I sTaated that the 'screan shot' that YOU posted is FALSE..which is fact




I want ALL irs taxed ELIMINATED

I want the fair tax

www.fair-tax.org
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,431,094 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
In my mind, the biggest problem with our tax code is all the loopholes and deductions. Cain's 9/9/9 plan would supposedly close those loopholes, and that's a good thing, because those loopholes distort economic decision making, which causes malinvestment and kills jobs.

However -- the second-biggest problem with our tax code is that we rely too heavily on taxing wages instead of wealth (or wealth gains, or wealth disbursement). Poor and middle class people get most of their annual income through wages, rich people get most of their annual income through dividends and capital gains. Cain's plan eliminates dividend taxes, capital gains taxes, and inheritance taxes -- therefore you'd basically be exempting rich people from taxes, and that's a horrible idea.

The chart, as shown, is irrelevant to me. I think showing the "rich" as $300k/year earners is stupid and misleading. The rich are not defined by their annual income, and even if they were, $300k/year isn't rich.
exactly

taxing wages (income) is just stupid...and a good portion of income is never reported to begin with

tax spending

its like warren buffet...his "income" 100k......his spending 100 million

Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:08 PM
 
2,963 posts, read 6,249,438 times
Reputation: 1577
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
ok but total taxes is bs

let's look at my bracket

i make 60k...the actualy bracket i fall into is the 15% bracket...but once you deduct the 'standard deduction or the itemized deduction, and then the family size (exemptions) you end up with less than 40k to be taxed

yet if i count all total taxes....ias a 60k person who pays 12k fro property taxes...just the property tax is 20%

fact, the chart saying 17% for 55k is false
federal

income

taxes

vs

total

effect

tax

rate
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:11 PM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,856,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin View Post
This is talking about total taxes paid, not just federal income taxes. There is no group of people in this country that has a negative effective tax rate when you include local taxes, sales taxes and the payroll tax. As the chart shows (if you trust the CSM), the poor will see a tax increase while the wealthy will get a massive tax cut.
When you pay no federal income tax the payment of any federal tax becomes a tax increase. Those who demand the most from the system should be contributing to it, don't you think? Or are you of the mindset to reward failure and dependency while punishing success and self-reliance?

You also fail to acknowledge that the 999 plan cuts all tax loopholes out of the tax code. The real taxes paid by those you and other Progressives label as "rich" are higher than 9% because they continue to pay the county property taxes which fund the municipal schools, police, fire, etc... as well as continuing to pay state income taxes in applicable states .
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,809 posts, read 26,403,608 times
Reputation: 25705
Currently, working people (yes, that includes many "poor" people) pay ~15% of their income in payroll taxes (SS and Medicare), plus (potentially) income tax. Cain's "999" plan eliminates payroll tax and pegs income tax at 9%. For those that didn't do well at math....9<15. So, how is his plan a "tax increase" on the poor?

I like it, straight across the board plan, no deductions or exemptions, and far less money wasted on CPAs to look for loopholes. It also provides far less incentive for business to send profits off shore to less unfavorable tax countries.

It's a step towards eliminating the IRS and replacing income tax with the Fair tax.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:58 PM
 
4,911 posts, read 3,423,613 times
Reputation: 1257
I voted no. I do like the more honest phrasing though, instead of that bull**** Cain and the cons call it. What is it, "fair tax"?
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:01 PM
 
4,911 posts, read 3,423,613 times
Reputation: 1257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin View Post
Has she used the "gotcha question" excuse for that yet?
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:08 PM
 
4,911 posts, read 3,423,613 times
Reputation: 1257
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Again another poll so skewed there is no way to vote. Why does the OP troll thusly when he/she could actually create a decent and substinative poll?

While I agree with the 9% consumption tax proposed by Cain I do not agree with it in conjunction with a federal income tax. I believe in a consumption tax in place of income and estate taxes. Before he came up with his 999 plan Cain also endorsed such a plan.

The "poor" appears to be the 47%+ who pay no federal income tax but whose representatives legislate their consitituents more and more entitlement money from those who do pay federal income tax. They are also that portion of society which require more public services and resources.

A consumption tax might make those who vote themselves money take a second look when they realize it will also affect their bottom line (financially speaking). Of course, the entitlement mentality is just as difficult to overcome as convincing a crack addict that one more high won't solve his/her problems.
It was never intended that everybody, or even a majority, or even a sizable proportion pay income taxes. In 1913 the first year the number who "didn't pay any taxes" was 96%

(Maybe they really didn't pay any federal taxes. Did they have payroll taxes and such back then)

Besides why wouldn't medicare and SS and payroll taxes be considered income taxes, they come out of your income
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