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Whale farts!! I'm sure they add to global warming, so go for it, save the planet.
That's the additude. Blame Thomas Edison. If he had not been such an environmentalist inventing the light bulb we'd all still be using whale oil (to the extinction of whales) and there would be no whale farts!
Not many people use electric heat, and a wood stove will not keep your lights on, so I'm not sure where you are going with this train of thought.
I do. I put in a ground source heat pump (horizontal loop) a few years ago. It is dramatically more efficient and less costly than the old propane furnace. My state gets approx. 80% of its electrical power generation from coal fired power plants. Now I'm facing having to put in an expensive PVC solar array to keep my electric costs down.
So hey, let's do what we've always done, let the Chinese make the damn things if they are too dirty for us to make. Environmental protection? Worker safety? Nahhh!
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In China, a country buckling with the breakneck pace of its industrial growth, such stories of environmental pollution are not uncommon. But the Luoyang Zhonggui High-Technology Co., here in the central plains of Henan Province near the Yellow River, stands out for one reason: It's a green energy company, producing polysilicon destined for solar energy panels sold around the world. But the byproduct of polysilicon production -- silicon tetrachloride -- is a highly toxic substance that poses environmental hazards.
"The land where you dump or bury it will be infertile. No grass or trees will grow in the place. . . . It is like dynamite -- it is poisonous, it is polluting. Human beings can never touch it," said Ren Bingyan, a professor at the School of Material Sciences at Hebei Industrial University.
...
Because of the environmental hazard, polysilicon companies in the developed world recycle the compound, putting it back into the production process. But the high investment costs and time, not to mention the enormous energy consumption required for heating the substance to more than 1800 degrees Fahrenheit for the recycling, have discouraged many factories in China from doing the same.
First, let's both thank the beneficial effect of anti-pollution regulation over the last forty years, which has made our air and water cleaner than it had been for many decades.
Agreed
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Originally Posted by marcopolo
Second, let's look at the real-world cost of these marginal "improvements." 10% of our cement plants will close. The gap in production will be made up by imports from countries with lesser environmental controls. Net effect: lost capital, lost jobs, a dirtier world. This is a trifecta for the ignorant application of noble intentions.
Got any figures to back up your claim. Are you sure that imports are from countries with lower standards? BTW bringing up cement plants is a bit OT as the thread is about coal plants.
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Originally Posted by marcopolo
Third, is it practical to shut down 20% of our current electrical generating capacity?
Is it 20%? Were some of these plants obsolete anyway? In any case, it's not going to happen tomorrow. It's not as if the coal electricity generating industry had this sprung upon them out of nowhere.
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Originally Posted by marcopolo
Fourth, can we agree that if we all drive on cement roads and live and work in buildings that have cement foundations and we all use electricity, we are NOT messing in other people's pools? The utilities ARE us, not some bag of money sitting out there, waiting to be tapped. Can't we be thankful for the environmental progress we have made, and skip the part where we impoverish ourselves with new rules? Can we take into account that poverty is a bigger hazard to health than existing, already-reduced levels of pollution?
You are messing in other peoples' pools: elementary mercury from coal and cement plant spreads around the world.
Some of you guys may think that it's good to stall on getting regulations passed. Business disagrees...
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American Electric Power (NYSE: AEP) is terminating its cooperative agreement with the U.S. Department of Energy and placing its plans to advance carbon dioxide capture and storage (CCS) technology to commercial scale on hold, citing the current uncertain status of U.S. climate policy and the continued weak economy as contributors to the decision. “We are placing the project on hold until economic and policy conditions create a viable path forward,” said Michael G. Morris, AEP chairman and chief executive officer. “With the help of Alstom, the Department of Energy and other partners, we have advanced CCS technology more than any other power generator with our successful two-year project to validate the technology. But at this time it doesn’t make economic sense to continue work on the commercial-scale CCS project beyond the current engineering phase.
“We are clearly in a classic ‘which comes first?’ situation,” Morris said. “The commercialization of this technology is vital if owners of coal-fueled generation are to comply with potential future climate regulations without prematurely retiring efficient, cost-effective generating capacity. But as a regulated utility, it is impossible to gain regulatory approval to recover our share of the costs for validating and deploying the technology without federal requirements to reduce greenhouse gas emissions already in place. The uncertainty also makes it difficult to attract partners to help fund the industry’s share.”...
When forced to decide between the environment and the economy, I pick the environment. It's one value that's not negotiable. Either find a way to stay clean or go out of business. Yielding even slightly on this issue opens a Pandora's box. The high cost of a necessity creates opportunity for better alternatives. Giving in to save money in the short run stops innovation. Eventually, it would be nice if we were inclined to do the right thing instead of demanding there be a profit in it.
More news from Alstom: http://www.alstom.com/power/news-and-events/press-releases/alstom-will-upgrade-american-electric-power-1300-mw-coal-fired-power-plant-fleet/* (broken link)
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Alstom has been awarded a framework contract worth €110 million ($150 million) over the next several years by American Electric Power (AEP) to upgrade the Low Pressure (LP) steam turbines across their 1300 MW coal-fired power plant fleet...
Alstom signed a contract with US firm Cobra Thermosolar Plants Inc. to supply a 125 MW steam turbine and a generator for a thermal solar plant in Tonopah, Nevada, USA using tower technology.
This order confirms Alstom’s expertise in manufacturing steam turbine to be operated in solar plants. It will be delivered in September 2012 and the solar plant will be commissioned by the end of 2013...
Thanks to all the fake controversy in the USA, you haven't developed clean energy technology as much as Europe, so that puts you at a competitive disadvantage.
Alstom and several prominent US-based research institutions have been awarded a $4.1 million grant from the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) to research and develop advanced control systems and integrated innovative sensors that increase energy production and lower the capital cost of offshore wind turbines—especially those based on advanced floating substructures. The award was part of over $43 million of grants announced last week by DOE to lower the cost of energy and shorten the timeline for deploying offshore wind energy systems in the United States by speeding technology innovations and removing current market barriers.
The bit in bold is a polite way of saying that Alstom has the basic patents and expertise.
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