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Originally Posted by psulions2007
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It's called Propaganda and Disinformation.
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Originally Posted by city414
When the US went to Iran in the 50's IS That not terrorism?
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Yes it was terrorism.
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Originally Posted by Vicman
Al Qaeda says he's dead too.
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An intelligent person would use the following line of reasoning:
1] a foreign government is trying to kill me
2] a foreign government believes it did kill me
3] therefore I will allow the foreign government to revel in its fantasy and believe that it did kill me, so that I can continue doing what I'm doing without being hunted by the foreign government.
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Originally Posted by Vicman
The burden of proof should go on the conspiracy theorist, always. It would be in City-Data's best interest to restrict discussion of and suppress advocacy of conspiracy theories.
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Proof has been offered on a number of theories.
Let's take 9-11 for example.
At 8:36 AM in an apartment complex in New Jersey directly across the bay and in plain view of the World Trade Center, there was a step van bearing the logo of Urban Moving Systems. Atop the step van there were 5 "Middle Eastern-looking" men with a video camera mounted on a tripod.
At 8:49 AM, the first plane struck one of the World Trade Center Towers. Over the course of the next several minutes, as residents of the apartment complex heard on radio/TV that the Tower had been hit, they looked out their windows or walked out on their balconies and observed the 5 "Middle Eastern-looking" men hollering, dancing around, doing "High-Fives"and celebrating. They engaged in the same behavior again when the second plane hit the other tower. Several minutes later, having become aware that horrified residents in the apartment complex were staring at them and taking notes, they left. Some residents had already notified the New Jersey State Police.
The mere fact that those 5 "Middle Eastern-looking" men
knew beforehand that those planes were going to strike the Towers of the World Trade Center
is undeniable irrefutable evidence of conspiracy.
You can close your eyes and close your mind and shake your head "no" and start frothing at the mouth until you fall over backwards, but it does not change the fact that it is proof of conspiracy.
Your refusal to acknowledge speaks volumes about your intelligence level and beliefs.
As it stands, those 5 "Middle Eastern-looking" men ended up at Liberty Park (in New Jersey) across the bay and in plain view of the World Trade Center and they were dancing and hollering and doing "High-Fives" as both of the Towers collapsed. Horrified onlookers at the park were appalled at their behavior, and several called the New Jersey State Police to report them. The men left shortly thereafter.
Later that afternoon, the New Jersey State Police stopped the step van on the highway adjacent to Giants Stadium and took the men into custody. Mayor Giuliani was asked about it during his press conference.
It was later discovered that those 5 "Middle Eastern-looking" men were Israeli citizens; that none of the 5 had visas to enter the United States; that all 5 had entered the United States illegally; that all 5 were former members of the IDF; and that 3 of the 5 were Mossad agents.
Two of the Israelis were deported, while the 3 Mossad agents were kept in solitary confinement and interrogated for 71 days by the CIA before being released.
Tapes, transcripts, videos of the interrogations, and the contents of the video they took, well, I'm quite sure that is all classified Top Secret Cosmic and it will be scheduled for declassification review in 75 years, or in the year 2076, so I seriously doubt you'll see any of it.
The fact that you can't grasp the concepts or ignore the evidence is your problem.
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Originally Posted by sterpetron
Death to iran and its government, leadership, military and all supporters and those who aid it both in iran and internationally.
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I support Iran.
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Originally Posted by Vicman
If Pakistan and Al Qaeda had posted messages saying "you didn't kill Bin Laden, you faked it" then your statement would make sense. Instead they acknowledge, yes, OBL died on May 1/2 (due to time zones), 2011.
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We already covered that.
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Originally Posted by Vicman
Remember that there is a distinction between:
* State terrorism and non-state (such as Al Qaeda) terrorism
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Fried chicken, baked chicken, grilled chicken....it's all chicken.
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Originally Posted by Bideshi
Sorry, I'm not buying this assassination story.
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Good for you for having the scourge and intelligence to see beyond.
What I find disgusting that is people on C-D saw the thread where Billary Clinton says the US governmetn controls the media and then said the US governmetn needs even more control of the media.
And yet they continue to watch the US media.
Thank god for real media. Here's the Guardian's take on it:
Unanswered questions over the alleged Iranian assassination plot | World news | The Guardian
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1: It appears very unlikely that Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, would approve such a brazen plot with such unpredictable consequences, in effect going to war with Iran's three greatest enemies – Saudi Arabia, the US and Israeli – at the same time. The watchwords of Khamenei's 23-year tenure have been caution and regime stability....
2:...Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is also a problematic suspect. The president has little influence on the Quds force, and is currently on what passes in Tehran for a charm offensive, releasing two US hikers after two years in custody, and proposing a new uranium deal last month...
3:...The Quds force has previously gone to great lengths to ensure its fingerprints are not found on attacks abroad. It almost always operates through trusted proxies such as Hezbollah and Iraqi Shia militias, with whom the Iranians share a common faith, and whom the Revolutionary Guards have trained in most cases. Despite years of investigations, there is suspicion but no proof of Iranian involvement in the 1983 bombing of the US embassy in Beirut and the 1996 attack on the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. In this latest alleged plot, the Quds force was purported to be working with a Mexican drugs cartel, the Zetas, with an Iranian-American used-car salesman as middleman (the plot was said to be codenamed Chevrolet). The link was made because the car salesman, Mansour Arbabsiar, was allegedly a cousin of a "big general" in the Quds force and a friend of the aunt of a Texas "associate" of the Zetas. Arbabsiar revealed the Iranian nature of the plot to this man, who turned out to be a US government informant. Why would the Quds force now throw its professionalism and caution to the wind?
4:The key evidence that the alleged plot was serious was the $100,000 wire transfer. It came from a foreign bank account, but that cannot be an Iranian account because such transfers are impossible under US law...
5:...Arbabsiar boasted that his cousin, who is said to have instigated the plot, "worked for [the] government [of Iran] but he's working outside. He's working like … like [a named non-Iranian intelligence agency]". Arbabsiar's absent co-defendant, Golam Shakuri, was allegedly a Quds colonel working for the cousin. Who is this cousin and how sure are the US authorities that he is a senior member of the Quds force?
6:Arbabsiar was told by his cousin and another high-ranking member of the Quds force that the head of the force, presumably Kassim Suleimani, approved of the plot and would eventually meet Arbabsiar. But is there any proof that he was involved?
7:Could the alleged conspiracy be the work of an extremist cell within the Quds force? In that case, the unit is far more fragmented that previously thought, and we should shortly see top people in the organisation disappearing from view...
8:...Could the alleged plot be provocation by an outside agency seeking to start a conflict between Iran and its enemies? In that case Arbabsiar is consciously misleading his interrogators or is being used by his cousin and his associates, who are working for this third party...
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Originally Posted by Bideshi
What could Iran possibly hope to gain by such a provocative act?
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Absolutely nothing. Assassinating the Saudi ambassador to the US would be meaningless. On the other hand, assassinating the Saudi ambassador to Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan or Egypt would be a major coup.
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Originally Posted by Bideshi
It smacks of manufactured justification to go after Iran.
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You will invade Iran.
It's part and parcel of the overall US geo-political global strategy and has been for more than 3 decades.
The End Game to that plan is the resource rich eastern Russian republics full of coal, natural gas, oil, timber, metal ores and non-metallic minerals.
In order for the US to get that, it must have total control of Central Asia, so that US air bases in Central Asia (the US already has several that were built during Blow Job Bill's illegal wars in Central Asia) can operate the "No-Fly Zone" to protect the, um, you know, "pro-Democracy" groups that the US channeled money to and funded to give the US the justification for setting up a "No-Fly Zone" and of course bases to launch drones to attack targets in eastern Russia.
In order to control Central Asia, the US must first have control of either Iran or Afghanistan, but preferably both (and especially Iran). Why? The US needs an air and ground corridor between the sea and Central Asia. The US can access Central Asia from the Indian Ocean via Pakistan and Afghanistan,
but only if the US controls both. The US can also access Central Asia by air and ground via Iran from the Persian Gulf,
but only if the US controls Iran.
If you recall, thanks to Blow Job Bill's illegal wars in Central Asia, the Chevron Consortium (Chevron and British Petroleum) own 75% of the rights to all coal, natural gas, oil, metal ores and non-metallic minerals in Central Asia.
And if you recall, that was originally the UNOCAL Conglomerate (UNOCAL, Amoco, Chevron and BP) except that Chevron bought and now owns UNOCAL and BP bought and now owns Amoco.
How do you get those resources out of Central Asia?
Run the pipelines and rail lines through Russia? No, because then Russia profits from them and controls them, and Russia will sell them in Euros and Rubles.
Run the pipelines and rail lines through Iran? No, because then Iran profits from them and controls them, and Iran might try to sell them in Euros or a basket currency.
Run them through the mountains? No, because Lloyd's of London said they refuse to insure any pipeline or rail projects through the mountains because of security and environmental reasons. Since Lloyd's of London won't take such a risk, neither will any other insurance company on Earth. As it stands, it is a real security risk because the rail or pipelines can easily be sabotaged (creating a huge and very costly environmental disaster not to mention halting the flow of oil/natural gas and causing prices to spike etc).
That leaves Afghanistan.
The US tried to move the CentGas Pipeline through Afghanistan, but the Taliban wanted a Chinese-Brasilian Consortium to build and maintain it, and the US threw a hissy fit and started frothing at the mouth screaming "Democracy" until it fell over backwards. The Taliban is not in power, but the US cannot secure the area where the pipeline transits. NATO member countries are experiencing angst and having financial problems and they are not going to stay in Afghanistan forever. India refuses to assume the dying cockroach position and kiss US ass and then there's the whole issue of Pakistan's government and Pakistan's long-standing relationship with China.
If Pakistan becomes an issue, then the US arms the Baluchs and supports a revolution in Baluchistan and their independence. That gives the US access to Central Asia from the Indian Ocean via Baluchistan and Afghanistan, and as a bonus, the US can kick the Chinese navy out of their port in Pakistan which is in Baluchistan territory.
But that is pointless if the US cannot control Afghanistan, and it can't, so the US is going to bow out.
What's left?
The Mountains, Russia or Iran.
The Mountains and Russia are out of the question.
That leaves Iran.
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Originally Posted by Bideshi
I still wonder why we went after Libya but not Syria.
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Because the Saudis gave Gasprom (a Russian company) rights to explore for oil and natural gas and also a huge fricking contract to build a natural gas pipeline.
That pipeline is going south.
Why? Because it can be shipped as LNG to sub-Saharan Africa.
Why? Because that is BRIC's next main area of major development.
If BRIC develops sub-Saharan Africa, that will be even more jobs lost. So the US is now in a position to build drone bases (and it is) so that it can arm groups in sub-Saharan Africa and try to block BRIC from developing those countries.
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Originally Posted by sterpetron
It is a message, a warning that should the US and its allies press too hard on iran's nuclear weapons program, there will be a price - and if they attack iran, iran can reach the US even across the globe.
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Iran has no nuclear weapons program.
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Originally Posted by sterpetron
Since iran knows in a straight-up war with the US it would last 5 minutes...
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I went to the National Training Center twice to practice on Iran and it took more than 5 minutes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sterpetron
It is also a warning against SA to not allow israel its airspace for an attack against iran.
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Israel is not going to attack Iran. Israel never telegraphs its intentions and Israel doesn't have the tanker assets to refuel its aircraft in-flight, unless the Israelis are going to do a one-way suicide mission.
If Iran had a nuclear weapons program, then Israel would never have breathed a word. They simply would have attacked Iran and that would have been the end of it.
Except Iran has no nuclear weapons program and Israel knows that. If Israel attacks Iran, then Iran would just invite the entire world to come have a look at absolutely nothing, and then the world would outcast Israel.
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Originally Posted by Mathguy
The REALLY interesting facet to any Israel-Iranian tensions is that 20 years or so ago the Israelis could (and did) unilaterally act by bombing an Iranian nuke facility.
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That is not even remotely similar to the present situation.
Israel acted only because the US had given Israel detailed intelligence, and because US military advisors in Iraq had shut down Iraqi radar installations along the flight path for "maintenance reasons" and Iraq had all of its other radars looking at the Iranian border for Iranian aircraft (it was during the Iraq-Iran War), not to mention Iraqi CAPs were all in the east because Iran was the threat.
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