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Old 12-18-2011, 12:30 PM
 
674 posts, read 1,036,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkT3 View Post
Without the U.S. and Europe, there would be no jobs. So what's the lesson to be learned here? That socialism can not exist without Capitalism.
Without the U.S. and Europe the jobs would be made up for in what China produces instead to makeup for their absence from consumers around the world and domestically. How did that obvious point escape your thought process?


China is also not a socialist state. It's a mixed economy. Though you may have been speaking in a sense that meant "a mixed economy is essential" vs. a socialist state benefits from a capitalist state and vice versa. I'm not sure on which you were implying.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:36 PM
 
592 posts, read 407,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
I believe he was considering that we have a system in the U.S. of privatizing profits and socializing loses. When times are good, business is all too happy to claim that they are entitled to low taxes on their profits. But when these firms are in trouble, the run to the government with hat in hand.
You mean like GM? Considering GM was brought down by the unions who then called on the government to bail them out, it's pretty funny.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,090 posts, read 13,222,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkT3 View Post
3% unemployment tells you why they are happy, not the country is run by socialists. And it is 3% because they can trade with the capitalist countries. Just like China owes its growth to trading with the U.S. and Europe. Without the U.S. and Europe, there would be no jobs. So what's the lesson to be learned here? That socialism can not exist without Capitalism.
No one is arguing for communism; they are arguing for capitalism to be blended with some minor degrees of socialism. Pure capitalism has some real problems, and pure socialism has some real problems; you need to find some balancing blend of the two.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:47 PM
 
592 posts, read 407,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhAcid View Post
Without the U.S. and Europe the jobs would be made up for in what China produces instead to makeup for their absence from consumers around the world and domestically. How did that obvious point escape your thought process?


China is also not a socialist state. It's a mixed economy. Though you may have been speaking in a sense that meant "a mixed economy is essential" vs. a socialist state benefits from a capitalist state and vice versa. I'm not sure on which you were implying.
? China would collapse without the U.S. and Europe. There's no mixed economy whatever that might be. The Chinese economy is entirely dependent on the U.S. and European consumer. Beyond that China is a Communist state. Their only interest in trading with us is to benefit them for the time being. Otherwise they are the enemy.
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Old 12-18-2011, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,627,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by personwhoisaperson View Post
Well your Merriam-Webster dictionary is incorrect, especially it's 2b definition of socialism.
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Old 12-18-2011, 02:43 PM
 
6,137 posts, read 4,789,348 times
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Just around the corner from Norway’s central bank, for instance, Paul Bruum takes a needle full of amphetamines and jabs it into his muscular arm. His scabs and sores betray many years as a heroin addict. He says that the $1,500 he gets from the government each month is enough to keep him well-fed and supplied with drugs.

Mr. Bruum, 32, says he has never had a job, and he admits he is no position to find one. “I don’t blame anyone,” he said. “The Norwegian government has provided for me the best they can.”
Yeah guys this is just what we need here in America
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Old 12-18-2011, 02:52 PM
 
785 posts, read 610,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Norway has a 3% unemployment rate and does well in all of the indexes that measure happiness and well being. The country is run by socialists.
Norway is also sitting on a bed of oil and has a very small population and uses that oil money (its the worlds fifth largest oil exporter) to care of of its citizens.

Yikes...this one will be hard for you to rebut.
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Old 12-18-2011, 02:58 PM
 
785 posts, read 610,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
According to the CIA Fact Book, Cuba's literacy is 99.8%. That's higher than any other Caribbean neighbor. (Haiti-52.9%; Dominican Rep. -87%)

There infant mortality rate is lower than the U.S.

BTW, what are your metrics for "success?"

*Sigh*....that Cuban infant mortality myth again:

Cuba vs. the United States on Infant Mortality | Overpopulation.Com

Please read that. It details why Cuba's infant mortality rate is SLIGHTLY lower than ours. Its so odd..liberals never reveal the true metrics behind the measurements, however. Odd, that.

Oh, my definitions of success? Dunno, maybe just one of the major ones:

Health, wellness, wealth, rate of poverty and poverty RELATIVE to the rest of the world, free speech, justice system, overall safety, individual freedom and liberty, right and access to a free trial, the right to organize....I don't know, stuff like that.

Where does Cuba rank on there? Do tell!
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Old 12-18-2011, 03:03 PM
 
674 posts, read 1,036,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkT3 View Post
? China would collapse without the U.S. and Europe. There's no mixed economy whatever that might be. The Chinese economy is entirely dependent on the U.S. and European consumer. Beyond that China is a Communist state. Their only interest in trading with us is to benefit them for the time being. Otherwise they are the enemy.
You should do some reading into Deng Xiaoping and how market economy reforms saved China's faltering communist economy. China also has a single party socialist government. I.e. nothing even remotely resembling a communist state at all, despite their ruling party calling themselves communist. That alone does not it so so however.
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Old 12-18-2011, 03:14 PM
 
1,487 posts, read 2,345,902 times
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Socialism might work well for a developing nation (PC for third world country) but only in the short term. Look at China as the above poster says it's hardly a socialist nation today. Depending on the tenor of the population some well off nations can accept more social programs than others. Norway is one example and the opposite end of the scale is us, the USA. Still we have to accept some things that have a socialist bent to them.

Cuba has had a hard time to reach the next stage of development because Castro has created a typical Latin American dictatorship with communist overtones. Very soon communism in Cuba will have to go. Corporatism works better for a developed nation unless, like anything else, it is taken to extremes as we have done in the past 30 years.
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