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Old 03-24-2013, 02:47 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,846,511 times
Reputation: 2059

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirdik View Post
Socialism costs money. If the government gives something to someone it has to take that from someone else.
I've lived in NZ a few years and it didn't strike me as a more advanced country than the US.
Givig bailouts to big corps costs money..... Fighting wars costs money......... haing the mot expensive and least efficient health system in the industrialised world, costs money.
America has become the Country of..."let's put a bandaid on the problem instead of solving it"..... pity.
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:04 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 4,672,411 times
Reputation: 2170
Hey! Lets stay on this sinking ship because that ship might sink too!
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:53 AM
 
1 posts, read 701 times
Reputation: 10
Socialism, a watered down communism, is a philosophy of disaster, the doctrine of ignorance,
and the gospel of greed and envy.
Its intrinsic virtue is an equal sharing of misery.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:01 PM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,205,540 times
Reputation: 5481
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Yet, one can't ignore the many market failures and the many instances where te quest for profits does not yield the best good.
There has never been a 30 year period in which the market has failed to do extremely well for investors. What 'market failure' are you talking about?
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:14 PM
 
Location: USA
7,474 posts, read 7,033,677 times
Reputation: 12513
The utter inability of people to see the difference between socialism, communism, and totalitarian dictatorships never ceases to amaze me. The level of nonsense posted when the word "socialism" is used is simply depressing.

A few facts:

1) "Socialism" did not murder millions of people. None of the nations that are responsible for mass genocide were socialist. They were all dictatorships - Nazi Germany, Red China, Stalin's Russia, and so on. Oh, sure, they might have used the phrase "socialist" at some point in their propaganda, but they were all driven by the madness and evil of various individuals at the top. Calling them examples of "socialists murdering millions" is equivalent to saying that since individuals could own businesses in Nazi Germany, "capitalism caused the death of millions." in WW2. It's the same insane logic.

2) Socialism is not communism. Since, again, people have an almost pathological need to equate the two, let's actually look at what they both are:

What is Communism? Communism (from Latin communis – common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement which aims to create a classless, moneyless,[1][2] and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order.[3] This movement, in its Marxist–Leninist interpretations, significantly influenced the history of the 20th century, which saw intense rivalry between the "socialist world" (socialist states ruled by communist parties) and the "Western world" (countries with capitalist economies).[4]

What is Socialism? Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy.[1] "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these.[2] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them.[3] They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.[4]

Key differences between the two: Communism is a classless, moneyless, stateless system that results in equal results regardless of actual work or effort. Nobody in their right minds could consider Nazi Germany, the USSR, Red China, North Korea, etc. actual communist nations. They are clearly NOT classless - there is a solid ruling class and the poor masses - and they clearly have money, a state, etc. Again, while they may claim to be communist, they are simply dictatorships waving around Marxist propaganda in an effort to justify themselves. Note that there has NEVER been a truly communist nation on Earth and everyone at this point knows full well communism won't work on a scale larger than a dozen or so people.

Socialism, on the other hand, is even far less "scary" once one looks at it. The key points are common ownership and direction of effort. Basically, more people own the means of production and have a say in how it used, how it is funded, etc. This is hardly terrifying, and - again - nobody who is being intellectually honest can claim the Nazi's were "socialist" or that "socialism" caused WW2.

The cold, hard truth is that socialism is a very simple concept and is practiced on varying levels everywhere. For example, in America, your roads, firemen, police, and so on are "socialist." Also, if you own company stock, you are arguably participating in a "socialist" form of capitalism. All the stock owners control a bit of the means of production, and all of them have a small say in how it should be used.

3) Socialism works fine as part of a mixed economy: Much like how run-away capitalism is not too successful (except for those at the top, as American is learning these days), pure socialism would result in a sluggish society where everyone has an opinion so nothing gets done quickly. When mixed in with more traditional capitalism, it works fine, however. Examples of successful nations that could be considered socialist are plentiful - just look at most of Europe.

It helps if people understand what something is before fearing it...
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:31 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,118,333 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirdik View Post
No agenda. I'm just saying that we have plenty of socialism and it's destroying our economy.
Is it the socialism? Or spending the amount of money we do on our military and being the world police?

People say we have a budget/spending problem.... We have priorities problem.
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:34 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,118,333 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
There has never been a 30 year period in which the market has failed to do extremely well for investors. What 'market failure' are you talking about?
In the big picture..... it didn't trickle down.
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:36 PM
 
878 posts, read 942,275 times
Reputation: 893
Israel.

Next.
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:52 PM
 
2,672 posts, read 2,718,069 times
Reputation: 1041
Isnt the Tea Party a good example of the success of socialism. They depend on Medicare, Tricare, VA, Medicaid, SS, and a number of other gubbermint hand outs.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:09 PM
 
878 posts, read 942,275 times
Reputation: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid View Post
Isnt the Tea Party a good example of the success of socialism. They depend on Medicare, Tricare, VA, Medicaid, SS, and a number of other gubbermint hand outs.
Indeed, they do!
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