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They filter out who can and cannot attend college. In Germany, for example, it is decided when you are 12 if you are on the Abitur/University track. I suspect you would have been channeled to digging ditches had you grown up there.
Forever Unemployment insurance? In other words, do not bother ever getting a job. Why would you celebrate that?
The socialist experiments work for short periods of time, when they are instituted in nations where a very large portion of the population is productive (in both age and temperment), has a strong work ethic, and the economy is functional with plenty of jobs. Many places in Europe were like this, but they are now facing the inherent problems that doom a system that does not reward those who do the most work. Economies tend to stagnate when no matter how hard you work, you remain equal with everyone else--even those who don't work at all. Europe discovered this, and we have also. Our own experiment is facing the same collapse Europe is experiencing.
The first fatal problem arises when the population simply ages. Once the demographics mean that few workers are supporting far too many retirees, the whole system collapses. America's version of socialism faces this fact as the Baby Boom retires, but their prosperity is long gone.
Similarly, Europe's socialist nations face the exact same end: "But all over Europe governments with big budgets, falling tax revenues and aging populations are experiencing rising deficits, with more bad news ahead. With low growth, low birthrates and longer life expectancies, Europe can no longer afford its comfortable lifestyle, at least not without a period of austerity and significant changes. The countries are trying to reassure investors by cutting salaries, raising legal retirement ages, increasing work hours and reducing health benefits and pensions. “We’re now in rescue mode,” said Carl Bildt, Sweden’s foreign minister. “But we need to transition to the reform mode very soon. The ‘reform deficit’ is the real problem,” he said, pointing to the need for structural change." Deficit Crisis Threatens Ample Benefits of European Life - NYTimes.com
The other fatal problem arises when the promise of a "free meal" starts attracting large numbers of immigrants who do NOT have much work ethic, who are NOT productive, and who are perfectly content to move in be provided for by the newly-adopted state. They also don't have any loyalty to their new nation, and will happily bankrupt it: typically the immigrants have little in common with the natives now supporting them (as in the massive Muslim immigration to largely Christian Europe),
This has been happening to all the European Socialist nations over the last 10 years, when new laws allowing more unrestrained immigration hit: "Immigrants largely from North Africa arrive to the French Republic, usually with their families, and don't work. Why? Because France, like Germany and numerous other European nations, has such adequate social safety net programs that immigrants, who lack skills and are less competitive in a highly regulated market, see no benefit in finding work. When housing, food and education are afforded to them on the dime of the state, why go through the trouble of learning the language and joining the labor force?" European immigration strain rooted in economics - Ops - The Greyhound - Loyola University Maryland
There are thousands of articles on this topic on the internet, since each nation has its own story of which immigrant groups flocked to overwhelm the safety net: "Britain has just woken up to one of the consequences of the enlargement of the European Union on May 1st—the free movement of people and labour, including the wretchedly poor Roma minorities of new member-states like Slovakia, Hungary and the Czech Republic." Immigration: Those roamin' Roma | The Economist
But in every case, the story is the same: If a nation has very little immigration, the socialist experiment lasts until the needs of the elderly overwhelm the number of workers. If a nation allows open immigration, the needs of those who seek a "free ride" swamp the system first.
And for a book that completely describes why socialism and communism do NOT work as economic systems, due to the very basis of human nature, of course everyone should have read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ian Rand. Rand, who experienced communism under Russia, learned this lesson the hard way. Unfortunately, her level of intellect so far exceeds the average American today, that the book is both far too long, and far too hard to read, for it to really be accepted here. Perhaps in the future some pop writer will write a short book that is easy enough to read, that the message gets across.
There is no pure socialist country of which I am aware.
There are of course vastly successful countries much more socialist than we...
Scandanavia, Much of Europe, Singapore, Canada...would do for a start.
Have you not seen what's happening in Europe? The riots by the youth (sound familiar) because of the unfunded debt loads their social programs burdened them with! <sigh>
It isn't rocket science. The more you spend (waste) the poorer you will become.
The implosion of the welfare state
In 1970, Sweden’s level of prosperity was one quarter above Belgium’s. By 2003 Sweden had fallen to 14th place from 5th in the prosperity index, two places behind Belgium. According to OECD figures, Denmark was the 3rd most prosperous economy in the world in 1970, immediately behind Switzerland and the United States. In 2003, Denmark was 7th. Finland did badly as well. From 1989 to 2003, while Ireland rose from 21st to 4th place, Finland fell from 9th to 15th place. -end
Canada has socialized medicine, they aren't a socialist country. They've done well because back in 96-97 they were bankrupt and did the smart thing -- THEY STOPPED SPENDING! However, Canadians that need specialized surgery must come to the US for that. If you don't qualify for particular procedures, or they are too expensive, guess what... tough SH$% (you die).
If the health care isn't good enough for the Canadian BIG HEAD, then why should anyone else think it's great for themselves?
There isn't a purely socialist country that has ever succeeded, EVER!
The only thing an "ism" based government has brought is death and destruction. A wise man once said "Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". He was right, yet the educated idealists refuse to take advise from one of their best and brightest. Sounds a lot like Obama and his finance team... they talk, he ignores.
Speaking as a European, seeing you guys describe Europe is like watching three blind men, one of whom is holding the tail, another the trunk and the third an ear, describe an elephant. Each believes that he is right but none has the whole story.
BTW one fundamental difference between most European countries and the US is that they have the concept of a "loyal opposition". That's where the major party that is not in power still tries to cooperate with the ruling party for the good of the country.
Before someone starts screaming Norway & Sweden as "examples" - lets see them have open borders and let millions on non-citizens use their welfare/social systems and see how long they would last!
I disagree. Both America and Europe have modern welfare states. One might be marginally generous than the other. Both are going broke from them.
There really is no issue here.
This is an irrelevant debate. Why don't you advocate Zimbabwe, Mexico, or Saudi Arabia being more like Europe?
Look, we all have drank beers at a cafe on the Platz, Place, Piazza, etc and stared at those nice, old buildings. Its easy to do that and forget that modern Europe can present a pretty grim face as it has a multitude of problems.
I was talking about the health care systems. The US health care system costs twice as much as the OECD average. The average American pays more in taxes towards health care than the average Swede, Japanese, Brit etc. The waste in the system is twice the US military budget every year.
However, on the subject of Europes welfare, do note that the countries characterized by the smallest welfare systems, least regulated banking indutries, and lowest wages have the biggest problems.
The high-welfare, high-regulation, high-wage economies, Germany, Scandinavia, Switzerland, Finland etc. are doing quite well.
Really, I've heard the predictions of the death of the welfare state since the 60s. The welfare state was always supposed to be unsustainable. And through the decades of preditions of their imminent collapse, the welfare states have been catching up with the USA.
Fact is, the citizens of a democracy can have anything they are willing to bear the cost of on their tax forms. And that is quite, quite stable. Biggest army, space program, monuments to the Great Leader, tallest building -everything they are willing to pay for.
And if they don't want to pay for it, it doesn't help if they are named Greece or California.
Speaking as a European, seeing you guys describe Europe is like watching three blind men, one of whom is holding the tail, another the trunk and the third an ear, describe an elephant. Each believes that he is right but none has the whole story.
BTW one fundamental difference between most European countries and the US is that they have the concept of a "loyal opposition". That's where the major party that is not in power still tries to cooperate with the ruling party for the good of the country.
Did someone forget to fill in those who were burning England last month? Or Spain, or France, or Greece...or...or...or and now the anarchy has spread to the US (though peacfully thank God). Let me know how that Eurozone bliss is doing when Greece defaults in a couple of months. Let me know how loyal that opposition remains when they have to swallow the European version of QE and a massive bank bailout. By the way, you need to blow your nose if your going to wave it around like that.
A European trying to describe the US oozes wishful thinking. You all hate us because you want to be us.
A European trying to describe the US oozes wishful thinking. You all hate us because you want to be us.
You know, I really don't see that. Europe was a ruin after WW2, and has been catching up a little bit every decade since. And is doing quite well at the moment, economic troubles nonewithstanding.
The whole "you envy us" meme is pretty destructive. Its like "My kid is WONDERFUL! You are just saying he has problems because you are envious of how much better he is!"
Sometimes you need to take a realistic look at things. Honey, the kid is 15, weights 250 pounds, is deveoping type 2 diabetes already, and failing in his classes. The kid needs to shape up. Closing you eyes to thats is destroying the kid.
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