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YES people should serve their country in peace times,as a civilian or in uniform or any way they see fit to.But we are talking about dire times,when at war,when your country needs you as a soldier,not as a public servant.That's what a draft is for.
Reluctant?,many during WW2 were reluctant,think anybody wants to risk dieing?Yet there was need,people did it because it was the right thing to do.If it wasn't for the draft Britian,Holland,France,China,Burma and so on would have remained in German and Axis occupation.Do you view those drafted into Allied forces as slaves?....probably not.
So you think a Quaker would actually shoot anyone ? Someone with deep convictions about the immorality of war would not only be useless on a battlefield they would be a liability to their comrades.
And yes many soldiers go to war with a heavy heart and do not want to die. I think that is completely different than having a moral objection to killing other people.
A lot of conscientious objectors worked for the Red cross during the war for example ( the ones that were not imprisoned) and did a wonderful job serving in hospitals and as ambulance and relief personnel.
To coerce someone against their very deep convictions is just wrong.
Most people will join up to fight for their countries willingly when it is threatened but to force them to me is not only dictatorial it is just counter-productive. People have to be willing to obey orders, the army needs discipline and a sense of purpose, it requires the will to get the job done. If those things are missing , quite frankly you might as well train monkeys to fight.
I would certainly not want my back covered by someone who refused to pick up a gun.
I'll support any draft that excludes old, fat white guys.
Actually I would support a deal where for 2 or 3 years public service before or after college you would get your college loans paid off or a down payment on a house with a mortgage at the government bond rate.
If George W. Bush wants a draft, he can take his daughters to the front line first. After all, this is his war and it is being fought to protect the Bush family assets. I will never, under these circumstances, allow him to take my son to war. Not ever!! As long as he is commander in chief of the armed forces and (the most horrible) leader of our country, my child will never go. If he sends his precious daughters, then we can talk!
So you think a Quaker would actually shoot anyone ? Someone with deep convictions about the immorality of war would not only be useless on a battlefield they would be a liability to their comrades.
And yes many soldiers go to war with a heavy heart and do not want to die. I think that is completely different than having a moral objection to killing other people.
A lot of conscientious objectors worked for the Red cross during the war for example ( the ones that were not imprisoned) and did a wonderful job serving in hospitals and as ambulance and relief personnel.
To coerce someone against their very deep convictions is just wrong.
Most people will join up to fight for their countries willingly when it is threatened but to force them to me is not only dictatorial it is just counter-productive. People have to be willing to obey orders, the army needs discipline and a sense of purpose, it requires the will to get the job done. If those things are missing , quite frankly you might as well train monkeys to fight.
I would certainly not want my back covered by someone who refused to pick up a gun.
conscientious objectors is different,if they can prove it.Alot of battlefield medics did not carry a weapon yet were in the line of fire as much or more then fighting military personel.They still went to the call though,they didn't say hell no I won't go.
If George W. Bush wants a draft, he can take his daughters to the front line first. After all, this is his war and it is being fought to protect the Bush family assets. I will never, under these circumstances, allow him to take my son to war. Not ever!! As long as he is commander in chief of the armed forces and (the most horrible) leader of our country, my child will never go. If he sends his precious daughters, then we can talk!
I agree,no one excluded based on social status,unless it can be proven on religious convictions.
If we had to have a draft,that would probably mean that a war is going on that is very bloody and many people are dieing.Im not going to lose my life for a war that I didn't start.And Im not going to do public service unless it is something I want to do.
Last edited by CTownNative; 08-28-2007 at 12:00 PM..
I'll support any draft that excludes old, fat white guys.
Actually I would support a deal where for 2 or 3 years public service before or after college you would get your college loans paid off or a down payment on a house with a mortgage at the government bond rate.
Seems fairly similar to my sentiments expressed earlier (and now buried) in this thread, except you expanded the obligation timeframe, and I had it immediately after high school (or dropping out).
i'm gay, so I'm not allowed to even volunteer in the military, so why would I want a draft? I'm sure if we needed a draft they would magically make an acception for the rule and I'd be on the front lines with no benefits...
I need to be patriotic right?
change addresses without notifying the Selective Service System.[4]
Damn, was I supposed to have been doing that?
There will be no draft. In fact, I reckon Iraq will be the final military adventure abroad.
Firstly, nobody in the military wants it. Nobody in government wants it. In fact, the only people calling for conscription are the heirs to the Left that opposed it back in the 60s. And Jimmy Carter, a liberal Democrat who brought us Selective Service, the supposed first step to the draft which has morphed into yet another pork barrel project.
The draft as an instrument of discipline or shared purpose is a nice notion. Its also contrary to what the armed forces do- wage war.
Drafting all males and perhaps all females out of a population of 300 million would give you a huge army. It would also be horridly expensive and slow as molasses. The US is facing a whopper of situation with regards to entitlement spending. That is going to curtail not only military spending, but also our role as global cop or bully if you prefer. We cannot afford this anymore. Just like Europe.
Finally, the truth of the matter is this country is too selfish to go along with mandatory conscription, short of a WWII type situation. I have a hard time imagining the rich Porsche driving preppie or the gangbanger embracing the draft.
There should never be a draft. If we're ever invaded there will be enough volunteers. If not then most likely it's because our country has seriously MOD CUT.
Even a draft that isn't specifically military would be a bad idea. The government is run by crooks and liars looking out for their own interests. When they talk about "serving your country" it's a euphemism for "serving your government and the big corporations that pay for our campaigns and keep us in power." Letting the government decide what counts as "serving your country" and what doesn't is a bad idea.
Let's analyze the phrase "serving your country." For starters what's meant by "country"? The land? The government? The people? Of course they want you to think of your country as in the people. So what if the government drags the country into a war that ultimately makes things worse for the country's inhabitants. Is serving in the military still serving your country then, even though your actions are making things worse for everyone who lives there?
There are many ways to serve your country. In fact it's hard to get any job without serving the people in your country at least in some small way, even if it's just making food for your fellow countrymen at McDonalds. Working for the government is not necessary to serve your country, nor does it necessarily mean that you are serving your country.
Last edited by NewToCA; 05-27-2008 at 08:06 PM..
Reason: language
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