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Here's just one link of many you can find in a Google search. The surge is working no matter what the American hating left would have you believe. U.S. TOLL PLUNGES IN IRAQ
I believe we're back around pre-mosque explosion levels, for now. Early 2006-esque... but there was still considered to be a war raging back in 2005... if this is the Iraqi government's "window of opportunity" then what were they doing back then? They're not doing anything now. The surge isn't "working" unless there's progress towards long term peace... a reduction of casualties (due to a large variety of factors, the surge probably aided this) won't do any good in the long run if their corrupt, divided government doesn't come together to fix things. Whether there's much hope for that, I don't know, I don't know a lot about Iraqi politics...
However, I have heard that the strongest Shiite-Sunni coalition in the Iraqi government is one backed by Iran and opposed to the American occupation. It's not unlikely that the Iraqis (who generally don't like the American troops and especially hate the mercenaries, with a majority thinking it's okay to kill coalition forces and wanting us out within a year or so) will force many or most of our troops out with their own legislation in the near future.
Bottom line is that it's an incredibly complex situation, a huge problem and a nightmarish conundrum over there with, as BO said "no good options..." Nobody on this forum really KNOWS what the best option is (or the least worst option), including me.
Finally, it's not necessarily a good idea to go by statistics from the New York Post... while most sources agree that deaths have gone down since August, the Post is the type of newspaper that has an interest in posting the most optimistic statistics that can be found, and there are various sources that conflict with the reports of the US and Iraqi governments.
Iraq, as a nation, is dead. We killed it. We are just tending the corpse until a formal funeral can be arranged.
I expect that the territory that was once known as Babylon and more recently called Iraq will be split into a Shiastan, a Kurdistan and a Sunnistan. These will, respectively, become part of Iran by popular vote of the former Iraqis, be invaded and conquered by Turkey as part of a resurgent Ottoman Empire and join with Baathist Syria and eventually invade and occupy Saudi Arabia. The Greater Syria will, with the help of the Egyptians and the Palestinians invade and crush Israel. This will exhaust the Syrians and they will, in turn, be taken over by the Turks.
We will have become unable to do anything about these changes because our overspending on our overseas military bases, the debt on the Iraq war and our deindustrialization will exhaust us and prevent any action on our part. China will also tell us to stay out or they will call in the debt. We will still maintain some access to the mid eastern oil through the Turks but the Anglo/American oil companies will not be able to make any profit from the deals because the Turks will nationalize all the holdings. Europe will not complain as they will have accepted Turkey as a member of the European Union and the oil will be traded in Paris in Euros.
This may sound like a preliminary plot outline of a future history novel. It might be if I get around to writing it. I also think that this scenario is the likeliest outcome of this war.
pretty big accomplishments, yes they should be celebrated because historically the military pulled off some amazing feats in a short period
Should I go on?
yes maybe the nay sayers will actually see that things are being accomplished there instead of screaming words like "quagmire" from the get go
Why celebrate the first and simplest mission and none others HUH, HUH, HUH?
simplest mission, apparently you dont have the first clue on how complicated and difficult that "simple" mission was, how much of a task and how hard that was to pull off. Your ignorance is blinding, stay out of military affairs and leave it to those of us who have a clue to what we are talking about.
Where's the consistency?
um lets see there were other mission accomplished speaches for alot of other missions accomplished, but the left wing news media doesnt want to much good stuff coming out of there...becasue it doesnt help the casuse of saying..."BUSH LIED"
The troops are coming home soon because the surge is working. Ask proudcapmarine.
I am not even sure what that last comment is suppose to mean? looking at his name and knowing the history of the CAP Marines from vietnam. yes that strategy is being used an dthe Anbar Province has improved incredibly in two years. His opinions are dated by his experiance from vietnam. I am not criticizing his vietnam time (in fact i look up to it). But this is my ERA and i have the experiance in this war as a Marine using the same strategy they developed...and it has worked.
yes the surge is working. that is what we needed all along. weather or not the reduction in forces will allow things ot go south is a point. but THEN WHY THE HELL ARE WE....IE YOU....ALWAYS PUSHING FOR US TO GET OUT OF THERE? oh no we are to close to success, lets get out fast.
lastly i am sorry if ignorant people took the mission accomplished part about Iraq as the final curtain call. but that was a pretty dumb assumption
yes the surge is working. that is what we needed all along. weather or not the reduction in forces will allow things ot go south is a point. but THEN WHY THE HELL ARE WE....IE YOU....ALWAYS PUSHING FOR US TO GET OUT OF THERE? oh no we are to close to success, lets get out fast.
How do you define success, and how are we close to it?
success is killing off the insurgency and the terror element there which is causing more rife and problems the anyhting else.
Interesting. I thought Bush currently defines success as the point when the Iraqi Army and Iraqi government could handle things on their own. They stand up, We stand down. Which from the looks of it is never going to happen. The government is in a shambles, and has no reason to do anything as long as we are there to do all the heavy work. The army is split with soldiers being loyal to their tribes over their unit. Now we have the Turks invading the North and attacking the Kurds.
Time to Pull the Plug.
that all falls in line with the very first part i said....the govt isnt in shambles, its a fledgling govt still trying to get itself straight. the iraqi military ad police is standing and growing, yeah there are problems and they wont be as good as we are but unless you have fought with them side by side, dont just go off what you hear in the media..
how many other excuses will come up to bail out. things are improving, the more circumstances (like turkey) get a little wily is where we have to really push back harder.
smackie94 - the way I look at Turkey's involvement is - if they're killing communist terrorists (the US designates PKK as terror organization) - then they're on our side (just a little late joining the Coalition
The strategy developed in Vietnam would've worked if the 'Copperhead' 'Peace Democrats' hadn't abandoned our allies...
i dont know if that was sarcasm, but i agree with tha standpoint, further more limiting the military on what it could do by some of those same politicians dragged that war out forever.
yet those same ones are the first to call iraq another vietnam.
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