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Old 10-14-2011, 11:18 PM
 
Location: California
37,135 posts, read 42,209,520 times
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People are born because other people weren't. Many of us are only here because a woman in our family tree had an abortion. People never think of that....because they are lame. You are basically "what if"ing an alternate reality where you imagine wonderful things.
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:45 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,461,160 times
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You can't make absolute logic with potentials. Every unborn baby has the potential to be Hitler or Gandhi. Most likely they will be like the vast majority of the population--neither great nor evil.

Most of the time "adoption" means foster care or orphanages, which often have lots of abuse. Kids come out of those situations totally shell-shocked and ruined for life. Take it from someone who has 1) been there 2) worked with orphans 3) married a foster child.

But I guess that should be what we do with everyone cause there's a one-in-a-million chance that kid could be the next Steve Jobs.
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:47 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,461,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucsLose View Post
That is a terrible argument.

The lesson or moral here is Jobs was GIVEN A CHANCE!!!!!!!! Give them at least a chance to LIVE and grow and a CHANCE to make decisions and possibly contribute to society.

And you dare compare this to people on death row? Those put to death CHOSE their path in life. They had a chance and failed. Thats on them.

What is so damn hard about giving the unborn at least a chance? The same chance you had. The same chance anyone else has had. Why is that so friggin difficult to understand?
I don't think the orphans that are raped and abused because they were put up for adoption are thinking about how they were "given a chance". I don't think the sixteen-year-old who gets turned out onto the streets cause the system won't take care of her anymore, who is expected to master adulthood when she didn't even have a childhood, is thinking about how she was "given a chance".

I've seen this with my own two eyes. How come this never gets talked about in the abortion vs. adoption debate?

People seriously need to learn more about adoption. Not every adoption is a rags-to-riches story complete with getting into Reed and going on to make the personal computer.
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:55 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,461,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vamos View Post
Of course, it's a ludicrous argument. It also assumes that Steve Jobs was a decent human being - something most of us don't know since we never met the guy. Sure, he was behind some great technologies, but he also stiffed his business partner first chance he got. Doesn't really come across as evidence of a "good" person to me.

Besides, abortion laws are pointless in this day and age for a large percentage of the population. Only the poor cannot muster the funds (and find the time) to fly to a location where an abortion can be legally obtained.

I've spent a significant portion of my adult life in a country where abortion is illegal - it never mattered to anyone in my social strata - they'd get on a plane and have one the next day. The only people who couldn't get one couldn't afford to feed the resulting baby, either. Sorry, most of you wanted a "global" market - you got it.

Even the poor can find ways to abort a fetus, of course. And they did where I lived, too - with not so great results.

You can make abortion illegal just as drugs are illegal in this country - those who want it will get it one way or another. It's a realty - might as well deal with it.

This whole discussion always reminds me of controversies surrounding access to condoms and sex ed for teens - as though forcing people's head in the sand will keep them from doing what they want to do. Since they are going to do it anyway, I'd rather have them do it in a safe manner.

The reality is that "pro-lifers" are full of naive utopian hope of human goodness and kindness: If we make abortion illegal, people will not have any, potential can be realized, and unwanted babies will get a chance to become contributing members of society. It will all work out. Human life is sacred unless you forfeit it, etc... It's a hope that certainly isn't objectionable. Unfortunately, people in general and society as a whole do not live up to such high hopes.
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:59 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,461,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
Yes folks think without the mac we'd all be sitting around putting pen to paper still and using the telegraph. Many other phones, tablets, handhelds around. Your just not cool unless you have an iphone or i whatever is the new choice for those who care. Long as it works I'm happy with whatever.
The iPhone and MacBook isn't just about being cool. Steve Jobs was the first person to think about disabled computer users. He gave the disabled options for the same price, out of the same store. This cannot be said for any other company.

I used the same computer visually impaired, blind, and deaf-blind--without having to pay the $1200 you have to to make that happen with other computers. I couldn't and cannot pick up any tablet or phone. I can't just use any computer. I can, however, use any Apple computer. I can also use any iPhone and any iPad and any Apple product.

http://www.apple.com/accessibility/

Last edited by nimchimpsky; 10-15-2011 at 07:08 AM..
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:01 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,461,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Steve Jobs was a Muslim?

Remember, what's good for the goose and all that...
Being half Syrian doesn't automatically make you Muslim.
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:24 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,461,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Being half Syrian doesn't automatically make you Muslim.
When your father is a Muslim then so are you. At least that's what we've been told about Obama... You might want to smack your brains back in your head.
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:26 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,302,323 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
Steve Jobs is why adoption is preferable to murder

Steve Jobs: adopted child who never met his biological father - Telegraph
Where is Charles Manson's mom? We should punish her for not having an abortion.
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:29 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,302,323 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken View Post
The majority of people are good, not bad.
And monsters like Hitler are extremely rare.

So save it.
There is something like 3000 people on death row in the US. Where are their mothers? They need to be punished too!
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:29 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,147,970 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Where is Charles Manson's mom? We should punish her for not having an abortion.

Well the anti-choicers want women punished every time they have their period.....down the toilet goes another Steve Jobs, their GOD!
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