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Old 10-16-2011, 09:25 PM
 
13,186 posts, read 14,952,928 times
Reputation: 4555

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
All right, folks. I think it's high time we dragged out this little goody:



So, basically, the government can't make a law regarding the establishment of a certain religion. Nor can it prohibit the free exercise of any religion.

So...Christian politicians can express their religious views. Individual Christians can express their political views. Charitable organizations, however, cannot without paying taxes. This is not an abridgment of free speech because the government still allows it...but you have to pay taxes in order to do so. And as a Christian I think that's good thing. It's actually a better arrangement for the church than for the government, since it keeps us Christians from selling out our commitment to the gospel for worldly power, which is fleeting.

Christians in this country really need to stop wrapping Jesus up in party politics. He didn't care about using Roman politics to spread his message, and neither did his earliest followers. I wish most modern Christians felt the same way. I sometimes think Christians in other countries have an easier time following Jesus than we do since they don't see Christianity as a means to a political end.
This is the lastest crap coming from the religious right wingers. Claiming that the Constituion only prohibits establishment of a "certain' religion.

And 3rd grader can read the Establishment clause and know that is false.

It prohibits government establishment "OF RELIGION" period. Not "A RELIGION".

Sorry I know you want to blare your non-denominational prayers over the school PA system and claim you are not promoting one religion but you'll be laughed out of court AGAIN.....LOL

Also I know you've been fed the right wing story that the "Colononists" only wanted freedom to pursue their own religion but that is 100% immaterial to what the Constitution seeks to prohibit.
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:32 AM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,934,632 times
Reputation: 7314
501C3 is a privelege, NOT a right, and it should be revoked from ALL churches.

AMEN.
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:45 AM
 
769 posts, read 1,011,733 times
Reputation: 473
Of course they should
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:10 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 3,112,946 times
Reputation: 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
501C3 is a privelege, NOT a right, and it should be revoked from ALL churches.

AMEN.
Are you an atheist?
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:10 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,161 posts, read 26,118,923 times
Reputation: 27898
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4g4m View Post
If churches lose their tax exempt status, wouldn't it be fair that all the phoney 501 C [3] that rake in millions of dollars a year also pay taxes?
Absolutely!
If,IF,IF there is a recognized benefit to the general welfare of the people of the nation then I concede there might be some allowance ....along the line of having to prove that an extremely high percentage( for instance 90%) of the monies taken in are spent directly on/to the 'cause' and not for operating expenses.
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Old 10-17-2011, 05:02 AM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,062,294 times
Reputation: 12919
They wouldn't pay income taxes either way. But atleast they would pay real estate taxes. I have to pay real estate taxes whether I show profit or not... so should a church.
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Old 10-17-2011, 05:02 AM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,233 posts, read 9,467,279 times
Reputation: 3133
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
This is the lastest crap coming from the religious right wingers. Claiming that the Constituion only prohibits establishment of a "certain' religion.

And 3rd grader can read the Establishment clause and know that is false.

It prohibits government establishment "OF RELIGION" period. Not "A RELIGION".

Sorry I know you want to blare your non-denominational prayers over the school PA system and claim you are not promoting one religion but you'll be laughed out of court AGAIN.....LOL

Also I know you've been fed the right wing story that the "Colononists" only wanted freedom to pursue their own religion but that is 100% immaterial to what the Constitution seeks to prohibit.
I think you misunderstood me. I DO believe in the separation of church and state. When I said "certain" religion, I meant that the govt. can't take any given religion and make it the official one. Maybe "certain" wasn't the right word?

In any case, I completely agree with you on this. The establishment clause is so clear that I really don't understand how some people can't get it. It clearly means that government isn't supposed to be in the religion business. That's the church's job.
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Old 10-17-2011, 05:03 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,975,677 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
501C3 is a privelege, NOT a right, and it should be revoked from ALL churches.
Yes it is a privilege and no it should be revoked for the very reasons that Bulldog in the above post #44 so succinctly pointed out. Churches are non-profit organization like any other, and please, the "wealth" of an organization has nothing to do with being non-profit. So unless you can demonstrate otherwise...

Signed,

An Atheist.
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:22 AM
 
11,186 posts, read 6,487,434 times
Reputation: 4621
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
I think you misunderstood me. I DO believe in the separation of church and state. When I said "certain" religion, I meant that the govt. can't take any given religion and make it the official one. Maybe "certain" wasn't the right word?

In any case, I completely agree with you on this. The establishment clause is so clear that I really don't understand how some people can't get it. It clearly means that government isn't supposed to be in the religion business. That's the church's job.
You wall of separationists can be a laugh riot. You say the establishment clause is so clear--- "Congress shall make no LAW respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free excercise thereof..."

Where does it prevent Congress from opening with a prayer, or placing a giant cross on the walls, or engaging in religious acts that are Not set by LAW ? Where does it prevent state and local governments from 'respecting an establishment of religion' ?

The establishment clause is clear, but not the way you want it to be. It took more than almost 2-centuries to pervert its clear original intent.
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,049 posts, read 34,533,909 times
Reputation: 10610
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartalx View Post
Wow! There is a lot of ignorance here. So many people think that churches shouldn't be allowed to voice their views on a political issue, or to fund a political entity or position, and if they don't keep their big mouth shut, they should lose their tax exempt status.
Well, if there's that much ignorance, then we certainly deserve to be enlightened! May I ask you a question? I'd like to know if there's a difference between a church stating its opinion on a given issue...and attempting to influence policy on that issue. (Perhaps that's where the notion of separating church and state lies? Just a thought).
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