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Old 04-09-2013, 12:45 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,861,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
There also ISN'T a SCOTUS ruling stating that such child is a natural born citizen.

We DO have federal determinations by Secretaries of State that such children are NOT even U.S. citizens, at all, though.
You have diplomatic determinations. Not legal determinations. And not about "children", but about individuals who WERE citizens of other countries, but who didn't want to meet the obligations of citizenship in those other countries.

Let's get back to the LAW. There may not be a SCOTUS ruling stating that a child born in the United States, regardless of parentage, is a natural-born citizen. But there is an American court that has ruled such, and that ruling hasn't been overturned, so it's part of the LAW.

 
Old 04-09-2013, 12:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
That's okay. The definition from Wong Kim Ark still serves nicely.

For mundane citizenship - not presidential citizenship.

Cuts of different cloth.
 
Old 04-09-2013, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,070,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonarchist View Post
For mundane citizenship - not presidential citizenship.
More than a dozen court decisions disagree with you.
 
Old 04-09-2013, 12:47 PM
 
3,846 posts, read 2,383,429 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
More than a dozen court decisions disagree with you.
Oh, really?

I haven't heard of any.
 
Old 04-09-2013, 12:48 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,861,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Total BS. Secretaries of State (PLURAL) applied U.S. law to determine that those born in the U.S. to non-citizen fathers were NOT U.S. citizens.
Not legal decisions. Diplomatic decisions.

Because these people didn't want to be US citizens. They wanted to live in a foreign country. They wanted all the privileges of citizenship in those foreign countries. They just didn't want to fulfill the obligations of foreign citizenship. And US citizenship cannot be misused in that way.
 
Old 04-09-2013, 12:49 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Any descent.

Italian law confers citizenship on persons of Italian descent.
How so? One must APPLY to have such conference examined, verified, and recognized.

Note that this is an APPLICATION:
http://www.conssanfrancisco.esteri.i...UINISNUOVA.pdf
Quote:
Who can apply for Italian citizenship?
descendents of Italian citizens (up to the second degree)
http://www.esteri.it/MAE/Templates/GenericTemplate.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRNODEGUID={ CAEFCD4E-B07F-4BF4-9FE0-F01AFB14F5EE}&NRORIGINALURL=%2fMAE%2fEN%2fMinister o%2fServizi%2fSportello_Info%2fDomandeFrequenti%2f Cittadinanza%2f&NRCACHEHINT=Guest#domanda2
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The crux of your argument is that anyone, ANYONE, born with dual citizenship has compromised loyalty and therefore cannot be eligible for President.
Secretaries of State have applied U.S. law to determine that those born in the U.S. to non-citizen fathers don't even have U.S. citizenship at all and thus, are ineligible for President.
 
Old 04-09-2013, 12:52 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Actually, they were simply determining if Hausding and Greisser could invoke American citizenship when, in fact, they were living in a foreign country as citizens of that foreign country, weren't interested in living in the United States, weren't interested in anything except avoiding their obligations as citizens of that foreign country.
So, you agree, mere birth in the U.S. is NOT SUFFICIENT to acquire U.S. citizenship. Got it!
 
Old 04-09-2013, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,070,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
How so? One must APPLY to have such conference examined, verified, and recognized.
Of course. So?
 
Old 04-09-2013, 12:54 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Of course the law changed. The 1866 Civil Rights Act was superseded by the 1870 Civil Rights Act, and the definition of citizen found in the 1866 act was removed.
And AFTER that, Secretaries of State applied U.S. law to determine that those born in the U.S. to NON-citizen fathers were in fact NOT U.S. citizens.
 
Old 04-09-2013, 12:54 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,861,612 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
How so? One must APPLY to have such conference examined, verified, and recognized.

Note that this is an APPLICATION:
http://www.conssanfrancisco.esteri.i...UINISNUOVA.pdf
http://www.esteri.it/MAE/Templates/GenericTemplate.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRNODEGUID={ CAEFCD4E-B07F-4BF4-9FE0-F01AFB14F5EE}&NRORIGINALURL=%2fMAE%2fEN%2fMinister o%2fServizi%2fSportello_Info%2fDomandeFrequenti%2f Cittadinanza%2f&NRCACHEHINT=Guest#domanda2Secretar ies of State have applied U.S. law to determine that those born in the U.S. to non-citizen fathers don't even have U.S. citizenship at all and thus, are ineligible for President.
Just another red herring from you.

None of the Secretary of State decisions have any bearing on the discussion at hand.

You've already freely admitted, numerous times, that Obama was born a citizen of the United States. Your argument is about natural-born status, not about citizenship, so these diplomatic decisions by the State Department are irrelevant.

What you require is a law stating that natural-born citizens must have two citizen parents. You don't have that. And the other side HAS a court ruling saying that anyone born in the United States is a natural-born citizen.

So all you have is your wishful thinking that your interpretation of the law would carry the day. And we have a court ruling that says our interpretation does carry the day. Which is why the birthers keep on failing in court. The LAW isn't on your side.
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