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A purely conservative/libertarian government has never truly been implemented. Why? Because human nature often dictates that the few will rule over the many. Interestingly enough, extreme leftist governments (socialism, communism, marxism, fascism) have come and gone over the last century. Many were conceived under the guise of an egalitarian and socially cooperative utopia; however, big government ultimately requires concentrated/autocratic power.
Also, I would consider the UK under the Thatcher government to be a prime example where conservative/libertarian ideals were implemented and proved to be greatly successful. Thatcher transformed a nation with rampant inflation, astronomically high unemployment, and constricting regulations into the economic powerhouse that it is today....
I'm pretty sure Mussolini would have had you executed for calling him a liberal.
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
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Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
The 1950s and 60s?
Or 1880's - 1920s. 1950-60's had post-WWII growth that was slowly being strangled by the developing big-government. I think the depression showed that government regulation on business/corporatism was necessary - but that doesn't necessitate "big government".
Or 1880's - 1920s. 1950-60's had post-WWII growth that was slowly being strangled by the developing big-government. I think the depression showed that government regulation on business/corporatism was necessary - but that doesn't necessitate "big government".
The debacle of the 1870s through the 1890s prompted massive changes in the structure. A failure of some "small government" that existed in the 1880s, I assume? Never mind the 1920s also ended with a bang... a pretty nasty bang prompting yet more changes. That demonstrates nothing but guaranteed failure of the ideology y'all religiously adhere to. Or may be, you believe that it will be different this time... same idea different results.
So now we're down to... there were some elements. There were also many elements of oligarchy, anarchy, socialism and what not.
we're not down to anything. if you read my first post on this thread you will notice i said it had never been tried before. there were elements of free markets here which had never been attempted anywhere else and are imo responsible for much of our success! if you're going to continue with your juvenile gotcha commentary, i won't waste my time responding. obviously slavery is not a concept favored by libertarians!
oooohhhh, nice punt.....but you still don't have an answer!
Blathering nonsense.
Both Europe and America are drowining in debt. Debt from BIG government. What part of that can you not comprehend? You either find a way to pay for it- which you probably cannot- or you slim down.
As for an answer, how about your own country? America did not always have this huge behemoth of a government replete with reptitive bureaucracies and endless drones of do nothing civil servants.
Was America such a bad place before it had the factories of apparatchiks known as the Dept of Education or FERC? Does the USDA really need 105,000 people? What do they do all day? What does ICE do? Or their parent, the Dept of Homeland Security?
What has idiotic legislation like No Child Left Behind or the Community Reinvestment Act done for us? Really, what? Was America so bad without those stellar examples of BIG government?
I am sympathetic to health care concerns, but was the answer for a bunch of mean and spiteful politicians to patch together a huge blob of paperwork that, by their own admisssions, nobody understands? That is BIG goverment. Please tell me why that is a good thing. If health care is so important, and it is, then why in the name of God can these people not get it right?
Give us the America of Eisenhower, with modern adjustments and sensibilities. The Bush/Obama Leviathan is strangling us.
There's your answer. Now you're going to have to suck on it.
we're not down to anything. if you read my first post on this thread you will notice i said it had never been tried before. there were elements of free markets here which had never been attempted anywhere else and are imo responsible for much of our success! if you're going to continue with your juvenile gotcha commentary, i won't waste my time responding. obviously slavery is not a concept favored by libertarians!
Then you could have saved time and energy by saying... it has never been tried or when it has, it has failed.
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
The debacle of the 1870s through the 1890s prompted massive changes in the structure. A failure of some "small government" that existed in the 1880s, I assume? Never mind the 1920s also ended with a bang... a pretty nasty bang prompting yet more changes. That demonstrates nothing but guaranteed failure of the ideology y'all religiously adhere to. Or may be, you believe that it will be different this time... same idea different results.
I disagree on your conclusion that it was a failure of small government that caused these problems. It was a failure of large corporatism that failed America. As, still a new nation (and still refining democracy in its interaction with free enterprise), we have learned along the way that regulations/laws on how big companies treat people/affect government are necessary. But, as I said, that doesn't equate to big government. Big government is more like Social Security, Dept. of Education, EPA, and the stripping of certain powers from the state level. These are the things that have produced higher taxes, bureaucracies, and too large of our working economy being reliant upon a federal government for employment.
I disagree on your conclusion that it was a failure of small government that caused these problems. It was a failure of large corporatism that failed America. As, still a new nation (and still refining democracy in its interaction with free enterprise), we have learned along the way that regulations/laws on how big companies treat people/affect government are necessary. But, as I said, that doesn't equate to big government. Big government is more like Social Security, Dept. of Education, EPA, and the stripping of certain powers from the state level. These are the things that have produced higher taxes, bureaucracies, and too large of our working economy being reliant upon a federal government for employment.
I've long believed that smaller the government, larger the corporations. Someone's got to rule. Which would explain why the idea guarantees failure.
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
I've long believed that smaller the government, larger the corporations. Someone's got to rule. Which would explain why the idea guarantees failure.
I think a small government will still be larger than most (if not all) corporations. The question is which of the two will have the better lawyers as they have been the tools used to either stick it to the people or to better them. Perhaps, also, who has a better vision/sustaining of that vision. Due to the nature of a democratic government, that suffers.
I've long believed that smaller the government, larger the corporations. Someone's got to rule. Which would explain why the idea guarantees failure.
government is huge at the moment. my, my but those corporations are tiny. just look at them, aig, gm, ford, goldman sachs, boa, bp, these mom and pop's have been severely restrained by big govt
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