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Our current system belies the laws of nature. Positive feedback loops never last. When a system starts getting out of balance in nature a negative feedback almost always kicks in to maintain a degree of stability. In our current system, aggregation of wealth and power accelerate aggregation of wealth and power. This is like hitting the accelerator when we see the wall ahead.
It seems that we can try to create a ecopolitical system that incorporates a negative feedback against income stratification, or it will end like it always does, with revoluton and bloodshed, and a managed economy that is less efficient. I personally hope we can go more toward a middle road (Sweden, Denmark, Germany) where workers are respected, real productivity is valued, the tax system works against severe income stratification, and yet the market is largely free and people are motivated to work and advance themselves. The right wingers would call that socialist, but their current prescription will just lead to class warfare, violence, and an even more extreme reactionary communist government in the end. In a democracy, opportunity and well-being for the majority is the only recipe for peace and long-term stability. That is rapidly being lost in the grovel before the rich, crap on the poor mentality we have developed recently.
It is funny that to the Tea Party types, the provision of health care for all Americans is an outrage, whereas they will fight to the death to protect the Bush era tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans. Black comedy, for sure.
not at all. its not a pie that we share. what does concern me is all these kids that have worked hard to get a college education and now cant find jobs. this is so wrong.
stop off shoring our jobs. stop illegal immigration. we need those jobs.
Does the income disparity between the richest Americans and everyone else over the past 30 years concern you? Why or why not.
It absolutely concerns me. Wealth concentration is a problem. I'm not speaking as a liberal either. (I feel the need to repeat this for the benefit of my critics who use the term carelessly when responding to a viewpoint they might not agree with.)
Yes, I'm a moderate. In fact, I'll even cite Kevin Phillips, erstwhile Republican strategist and the author of the book "American Theocracy." This longtime conservative had the perfect metaphor which best captures the problem at hand. He used the metaphor of an old man with poor circulation to best represent our beleaguered country. The wealth is concentrating itself in only a few places, much like the blood of the "old man" which isn't circulating properly, thus causing him problems of mobility, cognition, etc. Our nation has become that "old man." The wealth isn't moving much. The country is suffering with "poor circulation," if you will.
And I'm not advocating a solution involving wealth redistribution (especially since so many people on the right are averse to such an idea). Of course, progressives argue that wealth redistribution has been happening for years anyway to the benefit of a powerful plutocracy, and that's why we have this problem of income disparity.
Both sides should stop being so obstinate and work together to get things moving again. Everyone's so wrapped up in their ideologies that no one will give an inch. And while both sides fight, the bankers and executives -- the guys who took all those bundled mortgages and sold them to investors -- continue to party with complete impunity. (And remember, they bet against those same mortgage-backed securities.)
I notice a lot of folks are bashing hippies and protestors. And, truth be told, if those in the Occupation are engaging in lawless behavior, they should be arrested. But I noticed, in some threads at this site, that there is an alarming lack of indignation directed towards the bankers and executives who bet against the very junk they sold to investors. I see a lot of hippie-bashing. Now, I'm not an apologist for the hippies, but THEY didn't plunge the nation into a recession. Those damn companies couldn't deal with the problem on their own, so they took the bailouts courtesy of the American taxpayer.
Hippies versus pathological executives? The hippies don't bother me one whit. They're a little annoying at times, but hippie-bashers are COMPLETELY pathetic. With all these bankers, con-artists and financial sorcerers running amok, it seems surreal to get all fired up over a bunch of patchouli soaked elves. Plus, it's easy to target pacifists. And it's pretty weak, if you ask me. My message to the hippie-bashers: Try focusing that over-the-top angst at more deserving targets.
Kele, READ CAREFULLY! You compared CEO to clerk. I asked what CEO possessed to merit 500% more comp than the #2 man/woman. Try answering the question asked, not a fictional one in your mind.
Here it is again:What mystical powers does the CEO have that command a 500% increase in comp vs the #2?
Oh gee Bob...
Maybe because the company's BOD feels he's worth it.
Why is it any of your business?
Why are you people so fixated on determining what those who head private companies and corporations should actually be paid?
Why aren't you worried about how much more money Tina Fey made than her publicist last year? (13 million). I mean, she'd be nowhere without her publicist. Why the income disparity? Or why aren't you upset that LeBron James makes millions of dollars for playing a game while the guy who cleans his pool has to take more than one job to make ends meet?
What mystical powers do they have that command millions upon millions of dollars for a few months per year of "work"?
The double standards are mind-blowing!
Why don't you all get mad about the REAL cause of financial problems in this country instead of venting against the people who are helping to create the jobs in this country or investing in those who do?
I'd have alot more respect for you people if you were speaking out against crony capitalism. It was the Federal government and the Federal Reserve that bailed out Wall Street. Blame crony capitalism NOT real capitalism.
not at all. its not a pie that we share. what does concern me is all these kids that have worked hard to get a college education and now cant find jobs. this is so wrong.
stop off shoring our jobs. stop illegal immigration. we need those jobs.
We need to stop giving tax breaks to companies that outsource jobs. And, of course, Obama didn't help matters when he picked G.E. CEO, Jeffrey Immelt to head the President’s Council on Jobs and Competitiveness. G.E. paid no federal taxes in 2010. Plus, they received a $3.2 billion refund. And Obama picked THAT clown. That company outsources jobs while paying no taxes. Even Ronald Reagan himself put his fist down when G.E. was derelict in paying their taxes during the 1980s. Ergo, Reagan was cooler than Obama in many respects.
I say that we crack down on companies who don't pay their taxes and outsource jobs. And, hey, let's give tax breaks to companies who keep the work here in the U.S.A.
And if I were president, I'd be ready to wheel and deal with companies. They complain that the tax rate is too high in the U.S. Fine. Let's lower the corporate tax rate, but with the proviso that they stop using oversea tax shelters.
Doesn't concern me in the slightest, because I believe in self determination, and rugged individualism. That's what made America great.
If I have what makes me happy, I couldn't care less if someone else has more.
Some people are more talented than others and have the ability to turn things into gold, so to speak. This doesn't make them dishonest, or evil. It simply means they know how to manage money or run a business (usually both). They often put off their immediate desires for material things and plan for the future. Then later in life, they begin to enjoy the fruit of their labor.
Too many people today want right now what it took their parents many years to acquire. They spend every dime they earn and put nothing away for the future. If disaster strikes, they cannot react to it.
Everyone should be allowed to succeed or fail on their own. We can learn from failure the same as we can learn from success.
No one should be given what belongs to someone else (redistribution of wealth). This is immoral and it is wrong.
Some people have the notion that there is only so much money, and those that have more, have it at the expense of those with less. This is a ridiculous notion, and it has it's roots in Marxist thought. But wealth is created by individual effort and achievement. When one person earns a dollar, it is not because another loses one. An economy could never grow, if that were the case.
America became rich because we are a country of entrepreneurs. Innovators who take risks with their money and develop products that make life easier (or more fun). I love to use Apple Computer as an example. Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak were regular guys who loved electronics and computers. Together, they turned this love into gold, and changed the world. It's a perfect example of American ingenuity, and of rugged individualism.
We are free to be whomever we chose to be. Some will always be richer, and some will always be poorer. That is just the way it is.
'
The problem with this argument is that the majority of people will never be a Jobs or Gates. I have heard that Gates has a 170 IQ. That is something like 1/10000. So, the fact that a few can amass tremendous wealth based on brilliance is great, but it does not guarantee a just society where you average Joe can support his family. And as much as I am all for self improvement and rugged individualism, the current system also pays tremendous dividends to crooks who hire crooks to push legislation for them. More generally, a great society is built by people who take pride in their work, care for their fellow citizens, and give back generously to their society. It is not built by narcissists who only care about grabbing as much as they can whenever they can and screw the consequences. Namely the Goldman Sachs crowd and their ilk. Honestly, what do they produce that makes America better?
As for the bolded line above. That is easy to say, yet there is a huge difference between America of the last century, and, say, Zimbabwe or Bolivia. I am guessing you would not like to live in a country with a few people running the country and the rest of the people in shanties. On the other hand, I bet you would impressed by Sweden, Germany, France, Denmark, Finland, Canada, Norway, Netherlands, Switzerland, and a number of other first world countries with healthy middle classes and less inequality. So, that line is a cop out. I would guess that 99% of us take pride in the great society America created. It was by rugged individualism, but also decent workers' wages, good education, and government investment in civic structures (schools, parks) and transportation infrastructure, all fueled by a healthy middle class and a vibrant public sector.
Last edited by Fiddlehead; 10-30-2011 at 10:47 PM..
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Well said.
