Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Peter Schiff blew this progressive socialist away in a short debate, be sure to watch the video. Prof Cornel doesn't know the first thing about economics and it shows, he believes the gov'nt can solve all of our problems. We don't need anymore government intervention, haven't they screwed things up enough.
Keynesian economics is failing all across the world. Look at Europe and look at the more than lost decade in Japan. Those who cannot see these economic downfalls as largely the failings of governments interferring in free markets and practicing Keynesian economics are themselves economically illiterate.
Too much? lol I'd like to see a few examples.
Schiff was correct when he told us the housing bill was bad news and we'd see a bubble.
what "housing bill" ? There was no "housing bill" that caused the bubble.
Schiff has been calling for hyperinflation since 2008, on the grounds that we are printing too much money.
The reality is that the dollar was appreciating drastically, until we printed money with QE, just to keep from falling into a deflationary spiral.
If we listened to Schiff we'd all be screwed.
Quote:
Schiff blamed government for the problem, West blamed the bankers for buying off government.
Yup, and West is closer to being accurate than Schiff. This is kind of a stupid argument to begin with, though, blaming the bankers for buying off government, or blaming goverment for being bought off by bankers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
Schiff said the free market doesn't make those loans and he was spot on.
No kidding. We don't have a free market in mortgage finance. When was the last time we did? 1930?
Quote:
Since when is it good economics to make mortgage loans to people who have shown no or little ability to save as well as having a below average ability to repay loans?
what "housing bill" ? There was no "housing bill" that caused the bubble.
Schiff has been calling for hyperinflation since 2008, on the grounds that we are printing too much money.
The reality is that the dollar was appreciating drastically, until we printed money with QE, just to keep from falling into a deflationary spiral.
If we listened to Schiff we'd all be screwed.
Yup, and West is closer to being accurate than Schiff. This is kind of a stupid argument to begin with, though, blaming the bankers for buying off government, or blaming goverment for being bought off by bankers.
No kidding. We don't have a free market in mortgage finance. When was the last time we did? 1930?
It's not. Nobody ever said it was.
You post is really off base in regard to the US dollar. It has lost more than 90% of its value since Nixon took the US off the gold standard in 1973. Your premise is wrong and thus your argument of West's stance vs. Schiff's.
Show me something concrete to counter Schiff's arguments and you might sway me, until then, not so much.
You have to look at the macro economic picture to understand why we have not experienced hyper-inflation, yet. Once the final domino on the Euro has fallen, hyper-inflation will hit the US. It is a matter of when, not if, unless the course of fiat currencies and the use of Keynesian economics in the US and Europe alike are reversed.
You simply cannot spend your way out of debt and you cannot print your way out of inflation.
Clue: Look at the yaun and Japan's latest manipulation.
You post is really off base in regard to the US dollar. It has lost more than 90% of its value since Nixon took the US off the gold standard in 1973.
What the dollar has done since 1973 is totally different topic. I'm not talking about the fluctuations since 1973, because we're talking about the mortgage lending boom that took place in 2004-2006, and the anticpated effects of the 2008 crash.
Schiff has been arguing since 2008 , like I said, that we would have hyperinflation. Schiff has been wrong about that.
Quote:
You have to look at the macro economic picture to understand why we have not experienced hyper-inflation, yet.
you sound just like Schiff. "Just wait..."
Quote:
Once the final domino on the Euro has fallen, hyper-inflation will hit the US. It is a matter of when, not if, unless the course of fiat currencies and the use of Keynesian economics in the US and Europe alike are reversed.
blah blah blah. More bad assumptions.
Quote:
You simply cannot spend your way out of debt and you cannot print your way out of inflation.
We aren't dealing with inflation.
That is the point
Schiff is fighting an enemy that doesn't exist. whenever you point out that it doesn't exist, like I just did, what do you get?
"OH, well it just hasn't happened YET."
hah.
Quote:
Clue: Look at the yaun and Japan's latest manipulation.
the Yen or the Yuan? I've never heard of the yaun.
What about it? Japan has been trying to cause wage inflation for about 20 years, with minimal luck. This is yet another point that shows Schiff is clueless. The whole world is trying to devalue its currencies all at once. We're in a "race to the bottom." This is why major fiat currencies are staying relatively close to one another in value.
Guys like Schiff think that China has the ability to decouple from the US markets. For a long time, Schiff was big on this idea of "decoupling." He has been proven wrong, but this assumption of "decoupling" is a key part of his economic thinking. In Schiff's version of reality, he thought the US could have a severe decrease in demand, and somehow China and the rest of the world would go on unaffected. That has obviously not been the case.
I was real interested in Schiff, right before the crisis, and right after the crisis, up until I realized that he goes around talking about things he doesn't understand.
Last edited by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus; 11-01-2011 at 10:38 AM..
What the dollar has done since 1973 is totally different topic. I'm not talking about the fluctuations since 1973, because we're talking about the mortgage lending boom that took place in 2004-2006, and the anticpated effects of the 2008 crash.
Schiff has been arguing since 2008 , like I said, that we would have hyperinflation. Schiff has been wrong about that.
How has he been wrong, all the dominoes have yet to fall for hyper inflation to occur. It doesn't mean we still won't get there. Like IU said, give me something concrete.
you sound just like Schiff. "Just wait..."
blah blah blah. More bad assumptions. Care to be specific instead of only mocking or are you capable of intellegent economic discussion?
We aren't dealing with inflation. You deny we have inflation? Just because the government has excluded food and fuel from their indicies doesn't mean inflation is not occuring.
That is the point
Schiff is fighting an enemy that doesn't exist. whenever you point out that it doesn't exist, like I just did, what do you get?
"OH, well it just hasn't happened YET." Have you read any of Schiff's books? He never gives a specific timeline, just lays out the conditions which need to be met for hyper-inflation to occur. This nation is not practicing honest or sound monetary practices and your response is "hah"? Really?
hah.
the Yen or the Yuan? I've never heard of the yaun. Sorry, my typo, the Yuan is Chinese currency. I was simultaneously reading another article while typing my response. You've never heard of the Yuan, really? And I'm supposed to take your word on how Schiff is wrong?
What about it? Japan has been trying to cause wage inflation for about 20 years, with minimal luck. This is yet another point that shows Schiff is clueless.
My point about Japan was its manipulation of its currency yesterday in an effort to not further damage the US dollar. Keep up! Once the nations of the world quite propping up the US dollar we will see the SHTF as all those dollars return to the USA. Be careful not to mock Schiff, Woods, Paul, Hannan and others too soon lset you be proven wrong and caught with worthless dollar based investments. The normalcy bias is easy, admitting failure in monetary policy, not so much.
My point about Japan was its manipulation of its currency yesterday in an effort to not further damage the US dollar. Keep up!
Hell, you called it the "Yaun," so don't tell me to "keep up."
Japan manipulates its currency all the time. So does everyone else. I don't see what you are arguing here. Japan has not had any shift in policy; they have been trying to weaken the Yen since the Reagan administration.
I am really amused that they claim their goal is to "Not further damage the US Dollar." That is hilarious. Hopefully you don't actually believe that this is their goal ...
Japan loves having a cheap currency because they are export-driven, and this helps them combat unemployment and deflation.
Quote:
Once the nations of the world quite propping up the US dollar we will see the SHTF as all those dollars return to the USA.
I just picture you, and Schiff, wagging your fists and saying, "You'll see!"
Quote:
Be careful not to mock Schiff, Woods, Paul, Hannan and others too soon lset you be proven wrong and caught with worthless dollar based investments. The normalcy bias is easy, admitting failure in monetary policy, not so much.
Oh, I know that there is failure in monetary policy, just not the kind Schiff talks about.
what "housing bill" ? There was no "housing bill" that caused the bubble.
LMAO the housing bill in 2001 that destroyed this country and you don't know about it?
Its the same reason for the cause of FDRs depression and its the same reason for the sky rocketing cost of college.
free money concept
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus
Schiff has been calling for hyperinflation since 2008, on the grounds that we are printing too much money.
We have been printing too much money for a long time. Do you understand the entire problem is the Federal Reserve counterfeiting money?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus
The reality is that the dollar was appreciating drastically, until we printed money with QE, just to keep from falling into a deflationary spiral.
The dollars purchasing power in America has been going down for a long time. I think you are comparing the dollars value to other countries money.
You are correct to cite the failed QEs but they made the dollars collapse worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus
If we listened to Schiff we'd all be screwed.
Because you say so?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus
Yup, and West is closer to being accurate than Schiff. This is kind of a stupid argument to begin with, though, blaming the bankers for buying off government, or blaming goverment for being bought off by bankers.
Both are closer to the truth. Prove otherwise. This is a first though. I haven't heard someone say Schiff and West both being wrong even though they have different arguments.
You missed the point once again. You are all about manipulation which never works in the long run. Are you going to keep feeding your kid cold medicine when he continues to go outside without a coat or are you going to give him a coat.
Treat the cause, don't react to the symptom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus
No kidding. We don't have a free market in mortgage finance. When was the last time we did? 1930?
Before the housing bill in 2001, which you dont know about, we did have a free market.
Were there very small attempts to secure loans for people who didnt quality? sure starting with Carter but nothing approaching the scale we tried in the housing bill of 2001 that you dont know about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus
It's not. Nobody ever said it was.
You did because of your failure to recognize the bad housing bill that you dont know about.
What are you doing in a discussing about capitalism when you dont know what it means? Take some classes on economics instead of poly sci then maybe you can come up with at least an understanding of bubbles and the cause of our economic crises. If you want to understand the problems look to Austrian economics since they are the ones who have been correct about collapses. Mises told us to expect a collapse in the 1920's and he was correct, as usual.
LMAO the housing bill in 2001 that destroyed this country and you don't know about it?
Uh.. no. Haven't heard of it. What is the name of the 2001 Housing Bill that supposedly destroyed the country, AND caused runaway student loans? I think you have your facts twisted up.
Quote:
We have been printing too much money for a long time. Do you understand the entire problem is the Federal Reserve counterfeiting money?
The Fed doesn't "counterfeit" money. Counterfeiting money is illegal. You obviously don't understand what they do.
Quote:
The dollars purchasing power in America has been going down for a long time.
Only up until 2008.
After 2008 things get much more complicated, and it is important not to conflate the 1971-2008 monetary environment with the 2008-2011 one.
Quote:
I think you are comparing the dollars value to other countries money.
Obviously.
Quote:
You are correct to cite the failed QEs but they made the dollars collapse worse.
QE didn't cause a dollar collapse.
It's weird how you go around making things up without any basis, but then demand "proof" of things I say.
Quote:
Both are closer to the truth. Prove otherwise.
Nah. Proving things takes work. You've already made a half dozen claims that need to be proven, so you get to work on those, and then I will know you're informed enough to take seriously.
Quote:
This is a first though. I haven't heard someone say Schiff and West both being wrong even though they have different arguments.
Well, we live in a complex world, and there are more than just two policy options to consider.
Quote:
You missed the point once again. You are all about manipulation which never works in the long run.
What does this mean, "I am all about manipulation" ?
And what do you mean, "It never works in the long run"?
Neither of these claims are true. I do not advocate manipulation, I simply acknowledge its ubiquity in global monetary policies. And as far as the "long run" is concerned, in the long run we're all dead.
Quote:
Are you going to keep feeding your kid cold medicine when he continues to go outside without a coat or are you going to give him a coat.
Treat the cause, don't react to the symptom.
Terrible analogy. I have no idea how this is supposed to relate to global monetary policy.
Quote:
Before the housing bill in 2001, which you dont know about, we did have a free market.
You still haven't explained what this mysterious "housing bill of 2001" is, and no, we did not having a free market in housing prior to 2001. That is a pure fantasy. Fannie and Freddie have played a major role in mortgage finance since the 1930s, and they've had implicit backing from the government since the late 1960's.
Quote:
What are you doing in a discussing about capitalism when you dont know what it means?
I don't know what you are babbling about. Suffice to say you don't understand Schiff's position, and you don't understand mine. You're wrapped up in some "2001 housing bill" that apparently caused all sorts of problems, that mysteriously no one but you has ever heard about.
Last edited by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus; 11-01-2011 at 12:49 PM..
Isn't Peter Schiff's father in prison for not paying taxes and leading one of those taxes are unconstitutional wing nut groups. I would say that the apple does not fall far from the tree. That is not to say that I agree with the good professor either. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
