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There is a memorial of four Confederate General statues right next door to City Hall in Dallas. It was erected sometime after the civil war or maybe early 1900's, I don't remember now. It's in the Founder's Cemetery. There are many African-American city employees as well as the population at large in Dallas and not once has anything been said to remove it. I'm sure maybe they compromised with the white folks to have the Black Arts building on the other side of it, thereby obstructing the view of the memorial from the highway. The point is, no one has ever called for it's removal. In the 90's the mayor of Dallas was black and one year he was guest speaker at the annual United Daughters of the Confederacy gathering. Some people understand that it's about heritage, not hate.
Do some of you not understand that the Stars and Stripes flew over every one of the slave ships coming out of Africa? Should we get rid of all our U.S. flags? And that less than 10% of Southerners were slave owners? And that some slave owners were freed black men? And that the reason the Southerners fought was not for slavery but because they own backyard was being invaded? Slavery was dying anyway with the progression of the industrial age.
Lincoln was no champion of the black man. He said if it helped his cause, he didn't care if the black man was freed or not. The South was very prosperous and he was stealing their profits and wanted more, more, more. I know I'm being simplistic here but he wasn't the high and mighty hero come to abolish slavery that he's made out to be.
Tenken, for references purposes since you live in the DC area, my friends who have the Confederate come from Damascus in Montgomery County and Walkersville and Middletown in Frederick County.
I did not reply to your posts because I believe that it was wrong to be proud of the Confederate Flag. Honestly, I do not care much for it personally, but I do understand that many people do not fly it for racist purposes.
I replied to your post because it contained false information and assumptions about other people and areas that had nothing to do with the gripes that you have.
It seems that you are very bitter and resentful because of past experiences that you may have had with others from the North. But, don't let your personal experiences cloud your judgement and start jumping to conclusions that others are to blame for everything that is going wrong with ALL OF AMERICA.
Are you suggesting that the American flag is the flag the Union used during the civil war? You seem much more intelligent then to believe that.
As for "who are you to judge my comments..." We can discuss and disagree with topics, BUT we are required to treat each other with respect.
I have certainly intended to offend no one and don't think that you can show that I have. Surely you are aware that the Flag of the United States flew over union activities during the war in question as well as from the stern of union vessels. If you have evidence that the flag of another nation, state or tribe did, please offer up some proof of that.
This link shows the US (American) flag that flew over union troops and the four official Confederate flags of the period. FLAGS OF THE CIVIL WAR
Last edited by Don D.; 08-28-2007 at 03:14 PM..
Reason: Edited to add official flag link
I know far too many people who "are not racist but...". Just because someone's conscious thought is not "F**K" those "so & so's" (or something racially offensive - I'm not good at it...lol), does not mean that their thinking is not inherently racist.
My mother wouldn't tolerate direct racist speech in our home - you wouldn't dare try to say the "n" word or anything like it... But, you also better not have left the yard with someone Black, married anyone Black, or the like. She grew up in the projects & was raised around Black (or "coloured" as she always said) & Jewish people. In her mind - she loved them & wouldn't tolerate any "ill" behaviour. But, she was the one who talked of "Je*ing" someone down in price & equally offensive sayings. Just because she was a product of her times & just because she outwardly in many ways espoused love & respect for diverse people (and just because her father was likely Jewish & her husband, my father, was a small portion of "colour" himself) does not negate the racist attitudes, thought patterns, & beliefs infused in her being.
The truth isn't always pretty - but it is what it is - denying it will never make "us" better.
The confederate flag is something that may represent good things to some - but so does the swastika (which is a symbol of peace, harmony, & well-being - imagine that) ------
But, there is absolutely no way to convince anyone who was at all affected by the Holocaust that it should proudly be displayed - just as few would disagree. Slavery is considered by many as "The Black Holocaust" & the confederate flag, for the great many of people of direct Afrikan heritage in this country, is an equally painful & damaging symbol of a horrible time in Amerikan history.
To deny this truth by blinding espousing "ancestral" or "Amerikan" pride is selfish, thoughtless, & inherently racist - IMHO.
Keep the confederate flag for history museums & private family collections as a reminder of our history & discussions about how not to repeat it - but, put it to rest in regard to flying it or displaying it as any form of pride or protest (or anything).
Well, what if I find your spelling of American as "Amerikan" offensive? And do you realize that people in other countries object to our referring to ourselves as Americans offensive? Shall we start calling ourselves United Statesians just so no one will be offended?
I have certainly intended to offend no one and don't think that you can show that I have. Surely you are aware that the Flag of the United States flew over union activities during the war in question as well as from the stern of union vessels. If you have evidence that the flag of another nation, state or tribe did, please offer up some proof of that.
This link shows the US (American) flag that flew over union troops and the four official Confederate flags of the period. FLAGS OF THE CIVIL WAR
First let me say that even though this is a heated debate, most of the members are at least being respectful to one another.
Don, thank you for providing the link. The flag that is shown there is NOT the American flag. My own state was still a territory at that time. The Union flag is not the same as our American flag.
You know, I didn't realize until about 10 years ago that the Southerners have an entirely different view of the Civil War. Did you learn it differently in the history books in school or are you reading books that another Southern person wrote who just wants to make some $$ with his fantastic new findings that will make the North look like monsters and the South look like the slaughtered sheep?
Is it just because this is a forum and we like to debate things or do Southerners REALLY feel that hateful about something that happened long before they were born? Remember that there were casualties on both sides of the war. You aren't the only ones who lost ancestors.
I'm glad to hear that no one has made a fuss about removing the tombs in Texas. That IMHO would be very disrespectful whether they were Yankees or Rebels.
Well, what if I find your spelling of American as "Amerikan" offensive? And do you realize that people in other countries object to our referring to ourselves as Americans offensive? Shall we start calling ourselves United Statesians just so no one will be offended?
First, there is absolutely no historical or oppressive significance to your being (or not) offended by my spelling of the word "Amerikan" - we cannot please everyone - the fact is that someone will be offended by almost anything.
And, I do not refer to myself as an "American" or "Amerikan" - it is Ethnocentric to call ourselves "Amerikan" as if we are the only ones - there is all of North, Central, & South Amerika - all are "Amerikans". If ever applicable, I refer to myself as a U.S. Citizen. Easy enough.
I did not change this way of speaking as to not offend anyone or to be PC - I did it because when I learned how to do better - I did better. Period.
It takes absolutely no effort whatsoever to be an empathetic, enlightened, considerate, well-rounded, thoughtful world citizen. I gladly & naturally live my life in this fashion. You sound as if it would be like giving your left lung to think or act outside your comfortable way of being...
For me, it's my pleasure.
Last edited by think.reciprocity; 08-28-2007 at 05:05 PM..
Reason: font colour change
And, I do not refer to myself as an "American" or "Amerikan" - it is Ethnocentric to call ourselves "Amerikan" as if we are the only ones - there is all of North, Central, & South Amerika - all are "Amerikans". If ever applicable, I refer to myself as a U.S. Citizen. Easy enough.
Yes but only in the U.S. does the term "American" become meaningful or hold any charm.
Having grown up in Canada I know no one who enjoys being known as a "North American." Likewise everyone I've met from South America have identified themselves as "Columbian", "Chilean", "Brazilian" etc.
Perhaps there are a few offended by people from the U.S. who use the term American to only mean U.S. citizens but likely there might only be one-in-10,000 to one-in-1,000,000 actually might have issue with it.
I wish I was either born in the U.S. or became a dual-citizen so that I too could confidently call myself "an American."
I agree with ColdCanadian...I'm pretty sure Canadians, Mexicans, and residents of South America do not wish to be known as "Americans."
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