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Jeez, I'd never in my wildest dreams consider Texas a welfare supported area... nor many many other areas of the south where it is popular to display it. I certainly do not agree with the notion of displaying it in any way - but, goodness, please lay off the stereotypical over-generalized & likely inaccurate appraisals of the situation. It really doesn't help.
(although you are, of course, entitled to your opinion)
It isn't a southern thing. The nice areas of the Southern towns that I've visited do not have confederate flags. Go where the doctors/lawyers/businessment live and you won't see them. Go to the trailer parks and you will. That's been my expeirience.
It isn't a southern thing. The nice areas of the Southern towns that I've visited do not have confederate flags. Go where the doctors/lawyers/businessment live and you won't see them. Go to the trailer parks and you will. That's been my expeirience.
Seems that this could be accurate, although I don't know for certain. But, I don't believe this necessarily negates the admiration, respect, "love" generally felt for the CF across the economic lines (not for all, but in significant numbers for the poor, middle class, & the well to do). But, that's just my opinion based upon my limited observance.
Seems that this could be accurate, although I don't know for certain. But, I don't believe this necessarily negates the admiration, respect, "love" generally felt for the CF across the economic lines (not for all, but in significant numbers for the poor, middle class, & the well to do). But, that's just my opinion based upon my limited observance.
Based upon my limited observance, significant members of the middle class and well to do have moved WELL beyond the civil war worship that once dominated the south. My guess is it is still strong in Mississippi, but has seriously decreased to the point that it is largely an embarassment in Charlotte, Atlanta, Dallas, etc. My ancestors fought in the confederacy. I don't consider it a point of pride or embarassment. I didn't fight, they did. I do believe, however, that they are in hell if it exists.
Based upon my limited observance, significant members of the middle class and well to do have moved WELL beyond the civil war worship that once dominated the south. My guess is it is still strong in Mississippi, but has seriously decreased to the point that it is largely an embarassment in Charlotte, Atlanta, Dallas, etc. My ancestors fought in the confederacy. I don't consider it a point of pride or embarassment. I didn't fight, they did. I do believe, however, that they are in hell if it exists.
Jakedog, maybe you aren't aware that most of the Southerners who fought were just poor folk fighting back a perceived enemy invading their homes and properties. What were they supposed to do? Stand there and let the invaders mow them down? The majority didn't have slaves, it was just that they were defending themselves against someone coming at them with guns. I don't understand why you would say they are in hell for trying to protect home and family.
Personally, I'm indifferent to its symbolism. I just don't care; but I can say that it's not a "racist statement" by all. Although not common, I've seen African American motorcyclists ride w/the confederate flag. Some people fly it as "redneck/good 'ole boy" type symbol - they typcially like to hunt, fish, work on cars, and are often very conservative. Do some use it as a racist statement? Of course, but not all.
Very well said. Every symbol ever created, ever, over time has different meanings to different people, depending upon their own personal background, upbringing, perspective, how the symbol is portrayed at that moment, with what underlying sentiment/meaning, etc. Take the Nazi swastika - how many people realize that it was actually a very ancient symbol, and meant nothing at all in regards to what the Nazi's did with it? As to the Confederate Flag - to me, it is simply a symbol of independence and Southern pride. Shame that some groups/peoples have adopted it for their own idiotic nasty symbol, trying to scare and/or show hate to a different group of humans.
btw, blueskies49 - good post there too; except would not have put the word 'perceived' to describe the enemy they were facing.
Nothing perceived about the killings, bullets, fires, theft, etc. that occurred.
Jakedog, maybe you aren't aware that most of the Southerners who fought were just poor folk fighting back a perceived enemy invading their homes and properties. What were they supposed to do? Stand there and let the invaders mow them down? The majority didn't have slaves, it was just that they were defending themselves against someone coming at them with guns. I don't understand why you would say they are in hell for trying to protect home and family.
Everybody stop with the whole "North invading the South" thing! The rebels decided to secede from the Union. The rebels decided to shell a Federal fort. What the hell did you think would happen once you start shelling a US military installation?
The South fought the war primarily to preserve the institution of slavery, while the Union's objective, at first, wasn't to abolish slavery, but rather keep the nation together. It's not coinicidence that the Southern states began seceding after a member of the new "free-soil" party (Republican) was elected president. Wealthy Southern planters felt that the Republicans hostility to the expansion of slavery into new territories was a threat to the institution itself. Furthermore, they feared that the containment of slavery would lead to the abolition of slavery. A lot of Southern planters were among the richest men in the world and did not want the Federal government to mess up a good thing.
Every Southerner knew the stakes, whether they owned slaves or not. In order to further justify the institution of slavery, the Confederate constitution explicitly proclaimed the white race to be superior to the black race. Notice that the US Constitution does not say that anywhere, but rather declares that "All men are created equal". Don't be shocked that blacks, many of whom are Southerners as well, react in a hostile manner to the battle flag.
To tell you the truth, I have no problem with individuals flying or displaying the battle flag, but I don't believe that it should fly over any statehouses.
Also, I have no problem with people being proud of their ancestors who fought for the Confederacy. I have no problem seeing statues of Confederate generals, as they played an important part in history. I also believe that racism exists everywhere, and not only in the South.
Let's not cloud the issue of the Civil War, but rather learn from it and appreciate many of the freedoms and liberties that we enjoy today are a result of that tragic period in history.
The South fought the war primarily to preserve the institution of slavery, while the Union's objective, at first, wasn't to abolish slavery, but rather keep the nation together.
I'd say that northern interest was far more financially motivated than anything else.
Notice that the US Constitution does not say that anywhere, but rather declares that "All men are created equal".
Although, at the time, slaves were not considered human beings but referred to as chattel property. The abuse of other human beings has often been rationalized throughout history by using "demonization" or "dehumanization" techniques.
That all being said, I appreciated your thoughts...
Everybody stop with the whole "North invading the South" thing! The rebels decided to secede from the Union. The rebels decided to shell a Federal fort. What the hell did you think would happen once you start shelling a US military installation?
The South fought the war primarily to preserve the institution of slavery, while the Union's objective, at first, wasn't to abolish slavery, but rather keep the nation together. It's not coinicidence that the Southern states began seceding after a member of the new "free-soil" party (Republican) was elected president. Wealthy Southern planters felt that the Republicans hostility to the expansion of slavery into new territories was a threat to the institution itself. Furthermore, they feared that the containment of slavery would lead to the abolition of slavery. A lot of Southern planters were among the richest men in the world and did not want the Federal government to mess up a good thing.
Every Southerner knew the stakes, whether they owned slaves or not. In order to further justify the institution of slavery, the Confederate constitution explicitly proclaimed the white race to be superior to the black race. Notice that the US Constitution does not say that anywhere, but rather declares that "All men are created equal". Don't be shocked that blacks, many of whom are Southerners as well, react in a hostile manner to the battle flag.
To tell you the truth, I have no problem with individuals flying or displaying the battle flag, but I don't believe that it should fly over any statehouses.
Also, I have no problem with people being proud of their ancestors who fought for the Confederacy. I have no problem seeing statues of Confederate generals, as they played an important part in history. I also believe that racism exists everywhere, and not only in the South.
Let's not cloud the issue of the Civil War, but rather learn from it and appreciate many of the freedoms and liberties that we enjoy today are a result of that tragic period in history.
Well said, cheers!!!!! Its nice to see someone who actually knows and understands the driving forces behind the war. Great post!
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As to the Confederate Flag - to me, it is simply a symbol of independence and Southern pride. Shame that some groups/peoples have adopted it for their own idiotic nasty symbol, trying to scare and/or show hate to a different group of humans.
