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Old 11-10-2011, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Westcoast
313 posts, read 450,607 times
Reputation: 407

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I have been waiting for years for a DECISION to be made on WHEN life "begins". After all, dead or so-called non-living things DON'T GROW. It shouldn't affect the rights to abortion; it does, however, wipe out the tiresome bubble-headed reasoning that an abortion is not killing a life.
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Old 11-10-2011, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Southern California
15,080 posts, read 20,474,184 times
Reputation: 10343
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunJoaquin View Post
I have been waiting for years for a DECISION to be made on WHEN life "begins". After all, dead or so-called non-living things DON'T GROW. It shouldn't affect the rights to abortion; it does, however, wipe out the tiresome bubble-headed reasoning that an abortion is not killing a life.
It's killing something but I wouldn't call it a life.
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Old 11-10-2011, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,378,527 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
It's killing something but I wouldn't call it a life.

Toaster oven?
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Old 11-10-2011, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Southern California
15,080 posts, read 20,474,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Is it a toaster oven?
No.
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,378,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
No.

OK, I give up.

If it's not a person, as the pro-abortion folks insist, what is it that has unique human DNA, one of a kind finger prints, a complete human body (not another species), a sex, a blood type, a heart beat, etc, yet is not a living human being?

If it has all these things when it is not a person, what changes to make this "non-person" into a person?
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:43 AM
 
Location: Southern California
15,080 posts, read 20,474,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
OK, I give up.

If it's not a person, as the pro-abortion folks insist, what is it that has unique human DNA, one of a kind finger prints, a complete human body (not another species), a sex, a blood type, a heart beat, etc, yet is not a living human being?

If it has all these things when it is not a person, what changes to make this "non-person" into a person?
A fertilized egg has none of the attributes you listed (with the exception, perhaps, of the unique human DNA). Therefore, it is not a person. And isn't that Personhood USA's argument - that personhood begins at conception?

[a person becomes a person when he/she has the attributes you listed - specifically a complete human body and, I would add, that is viable outside of the womb]
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Old 11-10-2011, 02:14 AM
 
Location: Lost in Texas
9,827 posts, read 6,936,232 times
Reputation: 3416
I for one am glad these initiatives are being addressed by the states. It's as it should be. States themselves should make these decissions. If two states have opposite opinions, move to the one that best suits your beliefs, whatever they may be.
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:30 AM
 
13,005 posts, read 18,908,288 times
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California and Oregon? They must be smoking some medicine! That has about as much chance of passage as making the 8 track tape the official music medium.
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:53 AM
 
488 posts, read 554,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
I would add, that is viable outside of the womb
And when is that, specifically? That definition changes as medicine improves, doesn't it? Even then, isn't it really on a case by case basis? How can you define a child as a "person" that way? Was a child at 24 weeks in the 1970s less of a person than a child at 24 weeks in 2011 simply because the child in 2011 is considered viable outside of the womb?
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Old 11-10-2011, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,080 posts, read 20,474,184 times
Reputation: 10343
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill80 View Post
And when is that, specifically? That definition changes as medicine improves, doesn't it? Even then, isn't it really on a case by case basis? How can you define a child as a "person" that way? Was a child at 24 weeks in the 1970s less of a person than a child at 24 weeks in 2011 simply because the child in 2011 is considered viable outside of the womb?
Good observation. The point when a fetus is viable outside of the womb has been a moving target. But we're not talking about a fetus. We're discussing a fertilized egg. Perhaps a few minutes or hours following fertilization(?). Outside the female body, with current technology, that's not going to develop into anything.

[in any event, this is we shoud rely on science in regards to this issue]
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