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No need to explain yourself. Unless they have worked as servers they'll never know. You are talking to people who don't even think there is a problem with violence in the Black community. They simply will not believe anything you say on the subject so why bother
And the ignorance continues . How would you know what these people think about violence in the black community? I certainly haven't received your poll. I guess the fact that I am a black person who congregates and dines routinely with other blacks to attest to their etiquette has no validity in this discussion
Points well taken. Its hard for anyone to be critical of their own.
However, I think African-Americans have quite a few positive stereotypes unless the President of the United States, Ivy League Academians, Secretaries of State, Artists, and UN Ambassadors are suddenly passe.
Thanks, Moth.
I understand where you're coming from, but it seems to me that these positive stereotypes are seen as exceptions and not an actual representation of the African-American population. I don't think even AA's see them as the "average".
As an example, think of how the average Asian guy is generalized and contrast it to the average black guy.
Until we decide as a group to step up our game through education and entrepreneurship (and criticism of those who create negative stereotypes like the bad tippers), those positive figures won't make a dent in the general perception.
It seems like a given, and that's how I personally see it. However, that's not how most people take it in my experience, especially if they are members of the group being generalized. Not everyone is like me and can roll these stereotypes off their backs.
From the African-American point of view, there are so many negative stereotypes raised and very few positive ones so when it's almost all bad and almost all generalizing, I'd prefer to see some differentiation in the classes of that group who is actually doing the negative things. Present-day Germans have more than enough positive stereotypes to counter the negative ones.
All that being said, I extend the same courtesy and don't play into the "stuff white people do" generalizations.
Point well taken. Part of the problem is that Blacks themselves go to great lengths to create a unified block. I mean take politics for example. You would think as Blacks become more educated and wealthier you would see a diversity of political opinion, a maturation if you will. Yet Upper Class Blacks are just as likely to vote for Democrats as poor Blacks. Are just as likely to grab hold to the victimhood spiel of Sharpton and Jackson. You will even see the children of Black middle class parents and above mimic their poorer bretheren in an attempt to assert their blackness.
I live in PG county, MD which is 65% Black, it's the most affluent Black county in the country blah blah yet every year the Dems get 88% of the vote. Primary elections are essentially the general election. One party rule is not good it breeds corruption which in PG we have loads of.
Lol more make believe. For the record I've never seen any waiter spit in some ones food, now a customers drink, well.........
LOL you think? You'd have to be black to know about it...
In establishments frequented mostly by whites, and where there are a few black waiters and waitresses, the black staff have a way of "dealing" with 'those kind' of white patrons. Spitting in their food or smearing things in them were common practice. Technically they should spit and smear in every white person's food because of what they've experienced.
This even happened in the military before the integration occured. Blacks were normally relegated to service type positions including mes hall duties. And guess what they did when one of the good ole boys was in line? Well, let's just say that it wasn't butter in those grits LOL...
And the ignorance continues . How would you know what these people think about violence in the black community? I certainly haven't received your poll. I guess the fact that I am a black person who congregates and dines routinely with other blacks to attest to their etiquette has no validity in this discussion
I'm referring to several posters which I've had previous discussions on other topics about. For a Professor do you normally go off half cocked without getting all the facts.
I think your experiences are valid. This thread is more or less about each of our experiences. So one can't discount the other. There have been other threads where facts and stats are presented and some posters will go through great lengths to bring up anecdotes as if that disproves the info being presented.
Point well taken. Part of the problem is that Blacks themselves go to great lengths to create a unified block. I mean take politics for example. You would think as Blacks become more educated and wealthier you would see a diversity of political opinion, a maturation if you will. Yet Upper Class Blacks are just as likely to vote for Democrats as poor Blacks. Are just as likely to grab hold to the victimhood spiel of Sharpton and Jackson. You will even see the children of Black middle class parents and above mimic their poorer bretheren in an attempt to assert their blackness.
I live in PG county, MD which is 65% Black, it's the most affluent Black county in the country blah blah yet every year the Dems get 88% of the vote. Primary elections are essentially the general election. One party rule is not good it breeds corruption which in PG we have loads of.
omg what does any of that have to do with tipping? before you j*zz yourself about black people and attempt to hijack the thread for black bashing, can we go back to the whole premise of NOT GENERALIZING? because your post above (and many of your other posts) do nothing but, well, generalize
omg what does any of that have to do with tipping? before you j*zz yourself about black people and attempt to hijack the thread for black bashing, can we go back to the whole premise of NOT GENERALIZING? because your post above (and many of your other posts) do nothing but, well, generalize
Sorry I live in the real world. Humans evolved to recognized common threats and react accordingly. I operate under the premise that you have to prove that you are in fact counter to my first impression.
What people forget about MLK's famous speech about racial harmony is the word, "dream".
Point well taken. Part of the problem is that Blacks themselves go to great lengths to create a unified block. I mean take politics for example. You would think as Blacks become more educated and wealthier you would see a diversity of political opinion, a maturation if you will. Yet Upper Class Blacks are just as likely to vote for Democrats as poor Blacks. Are just as likely to grab hold to the victimhood spiel of Sharpton and Jackson. You will even see the children of Black middle class parents and above mimic their poorer bretheren in an attempt to assert their blackness.
I live in PG county, MD which is 65% Black, it's the most affluent Black county in the country blah blah yet every year the Dems get 88% of the vote. Primary elections are essentially the general election. One party rule is not good it breeds corruption which in PG we have loads of.
Edward,
You make good points, I'm aware of everything you're saying and I make the same critiques. But at the same time, I put myself in the shoes of people making those choices instead of just assuming they don't have any incentives to do so. I suggest you do the same, so you'll at least understand the root of the critiques you're making.
In regards to voting, many affluent AA's I've known who are educated on the issues still vote Democratic because their ideology is no different from white affluent liberals. Therefore, economics doesn't play a role. Also, there are those who see voting for Dems as a self-preservation vote against racists. People will always vote for their perceived survival over any other factors, including economic freedom. I've done my research, and much of the conservative yet non-racist viewpoints made today by Republicans about the role of government are the same as those made the conservative racist Democrats who opposed Civil Rights.
In regards to victim-hood, people of every group will vote with the party that sees them as sympathetic victims over the party that appears indifferent to them. History backs up their justifications, and not everyone just "lets it go". This feeds into your critique of the Sharpton/Jackson types, who I don't think all AA's take seriously, at least not the ones I know personally. I see them as mostly media creations filling a vacuum of true Black leadership.
In regards to their children, that's what you must expect when there is lax parenting, lack of positive African-American role models in the shows/movies most of their kids watch, and letting their kids grow up in a peer environment that perpetuates the idolization of Lil' Wayne. I like a lot of his older music, but I'm old enough to have disdain for his personal life. Young minds can't always make that distinction, especially if their parents allowed the TV to raise them.
This is no different than affluent white parents who allow their kids to be raised by Miley Cyrus or whatever else is generally popular in their communities. The difference is gangsta rappers and culture are the dominant media displayed on the "black network".
I do agree that African-Americans would fare better in government representation if the votes were spread among parties. I think Republicans could make inroads by focusing on school vouchers for poor children and reforming the welfare state to a workfare-only/childcare/education program, guaranteed to anyone who wants one. Democrats can't win every election by opposing those issues.
I know we're off topic but this subject interests me and I can't really find a place to discuss it elsewhere.
Last edited by Freedom123; 11-30-2011 at 11:45 AM..
AKrunner88 has gone just to the edge of the cliff a couple of times (no offense) but he hasn't gone over haha.
The stereotype does have an incontrovertible ring of truth to it- but it certainly is not enough to disparage a whole group of people who obviously are going to be coming from different life experiences, cultures , socioeconomic strata and such.
I've worked almost exclusively in fine dining restaurants for years (the kind where the server doesn't write down the order, food and beverages are always served and removed from the proper side and at the correct time, the table is crumbed, no one bothers you about re-filling - generally a fresh tea or coffee is just served without asking and you aren't ever going to see us on our knees asking "how are you guys doin'?" etc...) and in a city with few African Americans.
It goes without saying this is a restaurant where judges, congressmen, doctors and the the general well to do are the norm so I would say it would mostly be the rare AA's on a date to impress (one time customers) or a small group from out of town that we would experience the "keep the change" type of tip to edge the stereotype a bit further into truism. But it was so rare it was almost as if we were getting punked and laughable. The regulars, which certainly included AAs among the Dr.'s and Judges mostly tipped like everybody else- some bad, most great.
The Europeans and Indians are going to be predictably worse- interestingly, we would have a good 25% of our cliental Mexican nationals- wealthy ass Mexicans who never cooked or cleaned a day in their lives and they were a breeze to serve- very used to the mechanics as it where of being served properly and always tipped well.
To AKrunners support and as others have noted- once you get to a certainly level of experience as a server you are just going be quite competent (hopefully?), enough so that giving bad service is just inefficient to do so. Your level of service is going to be pretty consistent and you aren't going to start out by giving bad service until that table starts indicating that they are going to be a problem and then you will likely be spending more time at those customers who treat you right.
Having worked my way up from "family dining" restaurants I am sure it is a whole other animal though with the common folks where that cultural propensity of some AAs to not tip, and even worse run a server ragged (for whatever reason I cannot say) is going to exist enough to drive someone like AKrunner a little bit bonkers once in awhile.
I am glad I am out of the industry but feel everyone should be required to be a sever for at least six months.
and as far as spitting in someone's food- I worked in the industry for over 20 years from the kitchen to bar to the front of the house and I think this is just urban legend. I never knew anyone who would ever do that regardless of how one was treated.
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. How would you know what these people think about violence in the black community? I certainly haven't received your poll. I guess the fact that I am a black person who congregates and dines routinely with other blacks to attest to their etiquette has no validity in this discussion 
