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Old 11-16-2011, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,948,900 times
Reputation: 5661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
The wealthy already pay the lions share of taxes in this country.
That's because they take in the lion's share of income and therefore, the rich are not an oppressed group as some may suggest.

But I see the trick of saying "taxes", as a proxy for “income taxes”. Most Americans pay more payroll than income taxes, but the reverse is true at high incomes. So focusing only on income taxes makes it seem as if the rich pay much more of the burden than they really do.

The Tax Policy Center answers what effect a change in taxes would have on after-tax income, other things equal. Here’s what I get for changes from 1979 to 2005:



Changes in tax rates have strongly favored the uber-rich.

It's undeniable that tax policy has very much leaned into that growing inequality, not against it.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:02 AM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,205,540 times
Reputation: 5481
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
That's because they take in the lion's share of income and therefore, the rich are not an oppressed group as some may suggest.

But I see the trick of saying "taxes", as a proxy for “income taxes”. Most Americans pay more payroll than income taxes, but the reverse is true at high incomes. So focusing only on income taxes makes it seem as if the rich pay much more of the burden than they really do.

The Tax Policy Center answers what effect a change in taxes would have on after-tax income, other things equal. Here’s what I get for changes from 1979 to 2005:



Changes in tax rates have strongly favored the uber-rich.

It's undeniable that tax policy has very much leaned into that growing inequality, not against it.
I have a hard time saying changes in tax rates 'favor the uber-rich' when you are completely ignoring the fact that the top 1% already pay a much higher percentage. I do not believe a person should pay a greater percentage simply because they make more money. Recent tax policy is attempting to make taxes fair again, instead of wrongly asking the rich to pay a bigger percentage than everyone else. Also, please give me the study and methodology behind that graph. I would like to look at the calculations.

I agree that tax policy has leaned towards growing inequality. Tax policy forces a person to pay a greater percentage as they make more money. Talk about inequality!

Equality in tax policy would be for everyone to pay a flat percentage rate in taxes.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,818,277 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
I have a hard time saying changes in tax rates 'favor the uber-rich' when you are completely ignoring the fact that the top 1% already pay a much higher percentage. I do not believe a person should pay a greater percentage simply because they make more money.
I do. And it doesn't surprise me that even Adam Smith thought that the rich can contribute to such causes in a greater proportion of their incomes than the poor.

All you're pushing for is to punish those who make less. There is no other explanation to your position.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,855,263 times
Reputation: 4585
I wonder how any of you would handle the challenge ...

The Pew Budget Challenge - The Pew Charitable Trusts
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:35 AM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,205,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
I do. And it doesn't surprise me that even Adam Smith thought that the rich can contribute to such causes in a greater proportion of their incomes than the poor.

All you're pushing for is to punish those who make less. There is no other explanation to your position.
So you disagree that equality means everyone pays the same percentage?

I am pushing for people taking responsibility for their own lives, instead of leeching off of the people who actually put in enough effort to be successful.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:49 AM
 
20,724 posts, read 19,363,240 times
Reputation: 8288
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
That's because they take in the lion's share of income and therefore, the rich are not an oppressed group as some may suggest.

But I see the trick of saying "taxes", as a proxy for “income taxes”. Most Americans pay more payroll than income taxes, but the reverse is true at high incomes. So focusing only on income taxes makes it seem as if the rich pay much more of the burden than they really do.

The Tax Policy Center answers what effect a change in taxes would have on after-tax income, other things equal. Here’s what I get for changes from 1979 to 2005:



Changes in tax rates have strongly favored the uber-rich.

It's undeniable that tax policy has very much leaned into that growing inequality, not against it.

Since 99% of the wealth is basically tied up in some form of real estate, mineral rights, monopoly and basically all kinds of absenteeism-income streams, all those taxes are paid with unearned income. Taxing that does not get me all choked up with compassion.

Last edited by gwynedd1; 11-16-2011 at 09:17 AM..
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:49 AM
 
3,728 posts, read 4,870,163 times
Reputation: 2294
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
I read your book. Next time I will rent the cliffnotes. A real fear of many americans is the fear that they will be living in the streets. I know there is a disconnect between the Republican congress and these people, who knew?
So your rebuttal is basically "tl;dr LOL"?

At least you live up to your screen name. Only hot air and no substance.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,483,709 times
Reputation: 9618
want EQUAL and nondiscriminating taxes


tax spending not income

Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,818,277 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
So you disagree that equality means everyone pays the same percentage?
Yes. My idea of equality utilizes the fundamental premise of burden on an individual and it requires an understanding of incomes and spending as a percentage of the incomes.

Quote:
I am pushing for people taking responsibility for their own lives, instead of leeching off of the people who actually put in enough effort to be successful.
A lot of assumptions and being judgmental is the driver of your whims. It has nothing to do with the realities. And you proved my point... that it is all about punishing those who make less ("the leeches" in your dictionary).
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,971 posts, read 22,151,621 times
Reputation: 13801
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Not surprising the most important thing to Americans is Jobs, but congress still seems to be focused on deficit. That could explain why their approval ratings are so low.



Only 6 Percent of Americans Call Deficit Most Important Problem | FDL Action
That is not good news, that is just one example of how bad things have gotten in this country.
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