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Old 11-23-2011, 04:10 AM
 
10 posts, read 14,942 times
Reputation: 15

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Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
I sincerely do not care about the study, of who is doing what to children. Pedophilia is plain disgustingly wrong, no matter who is doing it and for whatever reason is given.

I have heard stories in the past about people getting caught doing this terrible act. In most of the cases i am aware of or heard of the pedophiles were straight. I don't care if they are gay, or straight or bi does that make it any better, i think not.

Most of the cases from what i know of, are people who know these creeps. Friends or a Pastor of a Church, Normal looking people you would not expect. Parents keep an eye on your children, and trust no one.
I know...I don't understand the point of this thread.

Is male on male pedophilia worse than male on female on female on male or female on female? From what I understand, male on female abuse is a MUCH bigger problem. Young girls are sexually abused all over the world, but that doesn't negate the abuse males suffer. I guess if Sandusky abused young girls, it would be better.
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Old 11-23-2011, 05:51 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,315,820 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
I find your position to be both disturbing and disgusting .. and your tactics dishonest and shameless.

As for your debating skill and intellectual prowess? No problem at all. I can handle you in my sleep.
Are all those over the top personal insults in all your posts really necessary? Anyway….

Your last post (all of them really) shows the sort of amateurish errors found when someone copies and pastes (trying to disguise the fact that they did) from anti-gay religious lay-people who aren’t familiar with reading scholarly Journal articles and studies. However your post has given me great insight into the minds of some of the people who write the sort of deliberately deceptive anti-gay propaganda “articles” like your ‘source’. So thank you.

Here is the direct link to the source you quoted from. (Which you refused to provide yourself- for good reason.)

lifeissues.net | Homosexuality and the Church Crisis
It’s a homophobic rant called “Homosexuality and the Church Crisis” on an online ‘news’ blog called Lifeissues.net - which claims it’s a “Catholic Pro-Life news, articles, editorials and on-line resources inspired by The Gospel of Life and updated daily".

The author is Brian W. Clowes (of the extremist pro-life, anti-gay, anti-semitic religious fringe group called Human Life International.)
HLI Expert: Brian Clowes PhD

His PhD is in Civil Engineering. He is a lay person. He is Not a qualified clinician or researcher or health professional with years of experience and knowledge in this field.

And it’s blindingly obvious to anyone who has read the original articles and studies, that he has grossly misrepresented them. Which proves yet again, that you seem to make a habit of trying to trash things you haven't even read.

Here are the quotes you copied from Brian Clowes. Unfortunately you also copied some of his personal comments and misrepresented them as being from the out of context quotes from actual Journal articles. Along with his weird referencing style you also copied, it made your ‘source’ easy to find. There are lots of other conservative religious websites who have copied and pasted from him as well. Where you won't find propaganda 'articles' like this is in a reputable peer-reviewed Journal. An editor would laugh himself silly before throwing it in the round 'filing' basket under his desk as very poorly disguised anti-gay religiuous propaganda from a lay person who has no clue what he is talking about.



Quote:
Homosexual Alfred Kinsey, the USA's preeminent sexual researcher, found in 1948 that 37 percent of all male homosexuals admitted to having sex with children under 17 years old.7

A recent study published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that "The best epidemiological evidence indicates that only 2-4% of men attracted to adults prefer men. In contrast, around 25-40% of men attracted to children prefer boys. Thus, the rate of homosexual attraction is 6-20 times higher among pedophiles."8

Another recent study in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that "... all but 9 of the 48 homosexual men preferred the youngest two male age categories." These age categories were fifteen and twenty years old.9

A third study in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that "Pedophilia appears to have a greater than chance association with two other statistically infrequent phenomena. The first of these is homosexuality ... Recent surveys estimate the prevalence of homosexuality, among men attracted to adults, in the neighborhood of 2%. In contrast, the prevalence of homosexuality among pedophiles may be as high as 30-40%."10

A study in the Journal of Sex Research noted that "... the proportion of sex offenders against male children among homosexual men is substantially larger than the proportion of sex offenders against female children among heterosexual men ... the development of pedophilia is more closely linked with homosexuality than with heterosexuality."11

A study of 229 convicted child molesters published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that "eighty-six percent of [sexual] offenders against males described themselves as homosexual or bisexual."12


A study by The Institute for Sex Research, which was founded by Alfred Kinsey, determined that 25% of white homosexual men have had sex with boys sixteen years and younger.
So are you prepared to "put up an shut up" and post the whole surrounding paragraphs that those quoted sentences came from to prove you have even accessed and read the original articles and have not misrepresented them?

I am.

Despite your condescending claims, I don't have to personally subscribe to online Journals to read the full articles and not just the abstracts. I have access to a large number of Journal indexes and full text websites through the organization I work for and though my University. Remaining up to date and maintaining Ongoing Professional Development in my field is a requirement of the sort of work I do. I have had copies of most of these articles for several years. However, I don't have full online access to the one book your source supposedly quoted from, but google books allows a search of the text of that book...and the two quotes Clowes (or you) claimed are from the Bell and Weinburg book, aren't found at all in book as far as I can see.


Last edited by Ceist; 11-23-2011 at 06:39 AM..
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:04 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,315,820 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
You know what I discovered a while back? Your reference to "information", called: "Fact Sheet on Sexual Orientation and Child abuse" which can be found here: The truth about homosexuality and pedophilia (http://www.fallwell.com/pedophilia.html - broken link)

Now at first, even I was a little confused since the link appeared to be pointing to Jerry Falwell ... but how could that be I asked myself? The well known, outspoken Reverend who died a few years back. But upon visiting the cite, I discovered that it was in fact a "hijack site" intentionally "posing" as Jerry Falwell ... who's operators cleverly set up the URL "www.Fallwell" (with two L's in Fall instead of the correct spelling FalWell).
As I was wading through your lengthy diatribe, chuckling at your overblown insults, blatant lies and grandious claims, I noticed this particular deception of yours.

I don't know where you got the link to that 'hijack' site, but it wasn't from my post.

Below is the link I posted. To Dr Greg Herek's article on the USC website.

So you basically just made that accusation up. That's called..... a "lie" isn't it?. I've lost count of how many false accusations and lies you have posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
....

And here is a general article showing how some conservative religious anti-gay groups misrepresent and distort studies like those above to vilify homosexuals.
Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation
Not a bad debunking article on that "Fallwell" hijack site though.

Last edited by Ceist; 11-23-2011 at 06:46 AM..
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:50 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,315,820 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by decaturbound View Post
I know...I don't understand the point of this thread.

Is male on male pedophilia worse than male on female on female on male or female on female? From what I understand, male on female abuse is a MUCH bigger problem. Young girls are sexually abused all over the world, but that doesn't negate the abuse males suffer. I guess if Sandusky abused young girls, it would be better.
From what I understand, the ratio is roughly about 80% girls, 20% boys. The point of the OP's thread is not about the terrible abuse of children or protecting them from predators, it's about making irresponsible false claims that heterosexual men are a "zero threat to young boys" and trying to paint gay men with the pedophile label.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:58 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,315,820 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
I presented the information, including the sources for those who honestly wish to investigate the matter, which I already know does not include you.

.
There's another false claim I debunked several times already. You claimed you linked directly to the Journal of Homosexuality when in fact, you linked to an opinion article from NARTH. It appears you don't understand the difference.
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Old 11-23-2011, 07:02 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,315,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post

And how do I know this? Well, you continually cite study data that uses only "Self-Identified as heterosexual" as indisputable proof of the heterosexual orientation of males raping little boys
And yet another false claim I have already debunked, which shows yet again that you have not read the articles I linked to OR the articles your source 'quoted' from.

Have you not read all the references to phallometric testing and other methods of identifying sexual attraction and orientation throughout most of the studies and articles?

Guess you wouldn't know - since it's obvious you haven't read the studies and articles and have no idea what they are about.
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Old 11-23-2011, 07:08 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,413,564 times
Reputation: 12590
What gets talked even less about is female perpetrators with male or female victims. It seems that men get all the blame for child abuse, but women can be and often are abusers too. In this time and age, they tend to get away with more since men get the bulk of people's suspicions. Just think about it--male teachers have to worry about leaving the door open and not hugging their students, especially their female students, but female teachers get away with all sorts of things like this. That isn't to say that every affectionate teacher is a child abuser but the point is that for the female teachers that do have such tendencies, they can get away with a whole lot more. Most people don't think twice about a female teacher hugging a student, regardless of if that student is male or female. This is mostly true in the younger grades, where the students are still very much children, but even in high school it's still acceptable in a lot of circles. I feel like we should be worrying more about child abusers being in professions that involve a lot of children, such as teachers, pediatric nurses, and babysitters, and we should not be giving women the benefit of the doubt any more or less than we do men. If what this thread is really about is holding abusers responsible, we should be talking about all perpetrators, regardless of their sex and sexual orientation with adults.
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Old 11-23-2011, 07:10 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,315,820 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Obviously, you cannot challenge the legitimacy of either one.

Fraternal birth order and sexual orientation ... [Arch Sex Behav. 2000] - PubMed - NCBI

"Fraternal Birth Order and Sexual Orientation in Pedophiles." Archives of Sexual Behavior, October 2000 [Volume 29, Number 5], pages 463-478, p. 464.

Now if you want the entire article, you'll need a subscription. And like I said previously, I won't be providing that for you.

Similarly, you'll need access to the other referenced material that I won't "pay for" for you. As an example, PubMed didn't index the next article that I referenced ...(they have been known to be selective about which publications they choose to index, from time to time) so the difficult matter of going directly to the source - Journal of Sex Research, was required. Clever huh?

This is the sample page - to see the entire article you have to be a subscriber - sorry, I won't be paying for that either.

Taylor & Francis Online :: Heterosexuality, homosexuality, and erotic age preference - Journal of Sex Research - Volume 26, Issue 1

.
It's okay, I've had full text copies of these articles for some years now.

I don't "challenge the legitimacy" of the original Journal articles at all.
I challenge the misleading out of context misrepresentation of them by your religious anti-gay sources.

However you wouldn't know they have been misrepresented if you haven't even read them - would you?
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Old 11-23-2011, 07:17 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,315,820 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
The ONLY reason why I didn't make the effort to "provide" you links earlier is that you've already proven beyond any reasonable doubt that you aren't the least bit interested in facts or the truth, and when presented to you, you either ignore them or manufacture some lame, nonsensical counter point. So why bother WASTING MY TIME. I presented the information, including the sources for those who honestly wish to investigate the matter, which I already know does not include you.
No, it's so obvious to any rational poster that it's because the only links you could find to support your misinformed views were to religious anti-gay propaganda websites and not to any of the reputable health organizations like the the American Academy of Pediatrics etc. You are clearly not at all interested in honest investigation -otherwise you would be completely transparent about your sources as I have been. And you would not be surfing such obvious religious propaganda websites.

I'm not really sure why you keep wasting your time...
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Old 11-23-2011, 08:10 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,413,564 times
Reputation: 12590
(Please excuse the typos. I'm typing on a virtual keyboard with no Braille output.)

What I don't understand is how ultra-right fringe groups that make every attempt to dissociate themselves from "the gay lifestyle" would know anything about the etiology of homosexuality. Obviously they have no personal experience with homosexuality if they are obeying their homosexuality-condemning deity.

On the other hand, if they are like the numerous senators and televangelists tht have voted and preached against homosexuality only to be discovered having anonymous gay sex in a bathroom stall, them the cant exactly be trusted with their theories either. After all, if homosexuality is such a choice, why couldn't these people resist the temptation themselves?

There seems to be an ongoing trend that the people who speak the loudest against homosexuality tend to be the ones practicing it most in secret. Maybe other less vehemently anti-gay people should take a closer look at their "prophets" and see that they are just trying to convince themselves that they're not gay, and trying to drag a bunch of people along with them, so they can have other minds help them in upholding their fragile self-delusion.

Normally I would say go ahead and do as you please, but those people who are trying to convince themselves and others are doing so at a great cost. Every time a preacher preaches or a teacher teaches or a senator votes against homosexuality, they are creating a hostile environment for all gay people around them. Tis can lead to extremes, such as teen suicide and cults like Heaven's Gate. (I don't know how to link to YouTube because I'm typing from an iPad, which also explains all the errors in my post--sorry about that) but you can do a search yourself.

To give a summary, the leader of Heaven's Gate was so ashamed of his homosexuality that he came up with an entire theory about "raising humans" to a new level to "transcend" their carnal nature. His theory also involved committing suicide to achieve this "higher state". He ended up brainwashing numerous people into never visiting their families again, living in a secluded area, and eventually all committing suicide. The self-hating message he got about himself growing up gay literally let to him brainwashing others, which in turn led to mass suicide.

Hopefully the OP and others who agree with him can see why their viewpoints are so harmful. Gay people as a whole do not en masse condone pedophilia any more than Black people or Jews or any other group of people do. To try to convince others of that is not only misleading and dishonest, it can lead to real psychological harm and even suicide.

Please, please set aside your viewpoint for a moment. Step outside your own box and see just how much you are hurting others. How can you continue to spread misinformation at such a great cost? Is it really worth it??
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