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Old 11-23-2011, 08:37 PM
 
4,734 posts, read 4,344,068 times
Reputation: 3235

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
And now this country is broke to the tune of 15 trillion.

New Deal and New Deal Type programs are either going to take a big haircut.....or we will be in deep trouble.
And if you read the historical data, you'll know that the budget was kept in fairly good stead until about the year 1981. Compare the debt/GDP ratio in 1981 to the ratio in 1989. Also, look and see the years before Reagan.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Debt_Trend.svg

Conservatives simply can't bring themselves what the facts tell us: Reagan, H.W. Bush, and W. Bush were disasters for the national budget. Instead of cutting social programs, which actually put money into the national economy, we need to ration military spending, which dumps money overseas into expensive rebuilding projects or rewards a select few military contractors here.
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Old 11-23-2011, 08:42 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,249,033 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
The difference was that the 2009/2010 stimulus was geared differently. Remember, the GOP members of the Senate demanded 40% of the stimulus be converted into tax-cuts. Another chunk was aid to the states to avoid layoffs.
$300B of the stimulus was food stamps, and how much more went to "shovel ready" jobs green energy?

I very clearly remember discussing with you how the stimulus would reduce future GDP and have a negative impact while you stood there in denial until I produced the CBO reports validating this is true. (as if one needed a report to state the obvious)

You guys sit here denying the obvious over, and over again because "Obama" told you otherwise.
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Old 11-23-2011, 08:48 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,249,033 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
And if you read the historical data, you'll know that the budget was kept in fairly good stead until about the year 1981. Compare the debt/GDP ratio in 1981 to the ratio in 1989. Also, look and see the years before Reagan.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Debt_Trend.svg

Conservatives simply can't bring themselves what the facts tell us: Reagan, H.W. Bush, and W. Bush were disasters for the national budget. Instead of cutting social programs, which actually put money into the national economy, we need to ration military spending, which dumps money overseas into expensive rebuilding projects or rewards a select few military contractors here.
and here we go again.. Educating posters about things they should know, but obviously they dont.

Since the 1980's, the GOP has held Congress about 8 years TOTAL, and 4 of them resulted in balanced budgets.

Dont you know its CONGRESS that controls budgets and deficits?

how many of those other 30+ years not under GOP control resulted in balanced budgets? Answer of course = NONE..

Stop blaming the GOP for budgets written by Democrats
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
2,294 posts, read 2,669,598 times
Reputation: 3151
I'm in my thirties so obviously I can't speak from experience, however...

My grandmother, who died a while ago, voted for every Republican since Nixon. She hated Clinton and I'm sure would have hated Obama, but she died before he came on the scene.

With that said, until the time she died, she told me about how great FDR was. She lived in a small town in Indiana where the German and Asian people were ostracized during the war. She said her parents and everyone she knew loved and respected that man for his leadership during that time and told me stories about how he brought the country together and how everyone mourned his death. We did talk about the internment camps and she was not proud of that later in life, of course.

Even as a Republican, she still talked up FDR. I think that says something about the man, from someone who lived through all of it.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:08 PM
 
4,734 posts, read 4,344,068 times
Reputation: 3235
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
and here we go again.. Educating posters about things they should know, but obviously they dont.

Since the 1980's, the GOP has held Congress about 8 years TOTAL, and 4 of them resulted in balanced budgets.

Dont you know its CONGRESS that controls budgets and deficits?

how many of those other 30+ years not under GOP control resulted in balanced budgets? Answer of course = NONE..

Stop blaming the GOP for budgets written by Democrats
And here we go again, read up on your constitution buddy: It's the president who authorizes final passage of appropriations bills. There's no line-item veto, either; it's all or nothing. So if Reagan didn't get Star Wars and tax cuts for Jack Welch, then the Democrats didn't get their social programs funded and they got blamed for gridlock.

And none of that, by the way, changes the history of the decades *before* Reagan arrived, which clearly shows that since the end of 1945, Democrats and, at times GOP, too, worked together to control deficits and debt. The congress didn't change much for 40 years, but the occupant of the White House surely did. And that changed everything.

Your attempts to rewrite history are disingenuous and you know it.

And balanced budgets are a fool's errand. There's no need to balance the budget. There have been few times in our history when we haven't had a debt. Government is *not* -- I repeat, NOT -- a business.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:35 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,532,439 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
$300B of the stimulus was food stamps, and how much more went to "shovel ready" jobs green energy?

I very clearly remember discussing with you how the stimulus would reduce future GDP and have a negative impact while you stood there in denial until I produced the CBO reports validating this is true. (as if one needed a report to state the obvious)

You guys sit here denying the obvious over, and over again because "Obama" told you otherwise.
You should see the newest revised estimates from the CBO...
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:40 PM
 
14,292 posts, read 9,702,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
Conservatives love to talk about how bad of a president FDR was when it is a fact that the country loved him in the 1930s to the point they elected him 4 times.
Because he promised free stuff?

The 1930s was not modern times, the average voter had no idea FDR could not walk, and was wheel chair bound. Many truths were hidden from the people back in those days.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:46 PM
 
14,292 posts, read 9,702,584 times
Reputation: 4254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox Harrington View Post
I'm in my thirties so obviously I can't speak from experience, however...

My grandmother, who died a while ago, voted for every Republican since Nixon. She hated Clinton and I'm sure would have hated Obama, but she died before he came on the scene.

With that said, until the time she died, she told me about how great FDR was. She lived in a small town in Indiana where the German and Asian people were ostracized during the war. She said her parents and everyone she knew loved and respected that man for his leadership during that time and told me stories about how he brought the country together and how everyone mourned his death. We did talk about the internment camps and she was not proud of that later in life, of course.

Even as a Republican, she still talked up FDR. I think that says something about the man, from someone who lived through all of it.
FDR, even with all his flaws, loved this country, he was a proud American patriot, who inspired people to greatness and sacrifice, contrast FDR with the current president who calls Americans soft, lazy, arrogant, divisive, derisive and unimaginative.
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:18 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,249,033 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
And here we go again, read up on your constitution buddy: It's the president who authorizes final passage of appropriations bills. There's no line-item veto, either; it's all or nothing. So if Reagan didn't get Star Wars and tax cuts for Jack Welch, then the Democrats didn't get their social programs funded and they got blamed for gridlock.
Presidents cant sign bills not written by Congress, and all of your moaning and groaning about "blame", applies to the GOP more often than the Democrats because the GOP is usually the minority party in Congress
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
And none of that, by the way, changes the history of the decades *before* Reagan arrived, which clearly shows that since the end of 1945, Democrats and, at times GOP, too, worked together to control deficits and debt. The congress didn't change much for 40 years, but the occupant of the White House surely did. And that changed everything.
Someone need to tell you that Congress has elections just like the White House? The only thing which has changed is the Federal Government has decided they now have a need to babysit every waking moment of our life, and that comes as an expense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
Your attempts to rewrite history are disingenuous and you know it
Nope.. Just attempting to educate the left wing kooks who all moan and groan about debt under the GOP while then excusing it under Democrats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
And balanced budgets are a fool's errand. There's no need to balance the budget. There have been few times in our history when we haven't had a debt. Government is *not* -- I repeat, NOT -- a business.
See what I mean? Why the hell did your last posting complain about debt if it doesnt matter? Ooooh I know.. because your last posting was "GOP to blame for deficits", now that the truth comes out, that the deficits are to be blamed on the Democrats, you sit here and flip flop into "who cares"

Last edited by pghquest; 11-23-2011 at 10:33 PM..
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:32 PM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,233 posts, read 9,497,512 times
Reputation: 3133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox Harrington View Post
I'm in my thirties so obviously I can't speak from experience, however...

My grandmother, who died a while ago, voted for every Republican since Nixon. She hated Clinton and I'm sure would have hated Obama, but she died before he came on the scene.

With that said, until the time she died, she told me about how great FDR was. She lived in a small town in Indiana where the German and Asian people were ostracized during the war. She said her parents and everyone she knew loved and respected that man for his leadership during that time and told me stories about how he brought the country together and how everyone mourned his death. We did talk about the internment camps and she was not proud of that later in life, of course.

Even as a Republican, she still talked up FDR. I think that says something about the man, from someone who lived through all of it.
And that's the trouble with today's GOP demonizing (and Democrats waxing nostalgic) about FDR. None of us actually lived through the Depression and few of us lived through the War, so we only have history to draw on. Clearly plenty of Americans thought he was doing something right, even many Republicans. Who am I to say that those people were duped, or didn't know what they were thinking? It was their families who were unemployed and facing starvation. It was their kids, and relatives serving in combat and in the home front. Personally, I think he was a good president, but even my favorable perspective isn't as good as my grandparents', who came of age during both events, and who also thought he was a great president.
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