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Old 11-23-2011, 03:00 PM
 
13,609 posts, read 20,664,651 times
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Quote:
Exactly. Pretty much every legitimate historian credits the New Deal as a huge success and puts FDR in the top three presidents of all time.
"Legitimate" historians are no doubt those that you agree with.

Smoot-Hawley was the first major legislation to deal with the Stock Market crash. Rather than lower unemployment, which had yet to really skyrocket, it sent it into double-digits. FDR followed with other legislation, thousands of executive orders, price controls, etc.

Yet, unemployment continued in double digits until WWII changed everything.
File:US Unemployment 1910-1960.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, why on Earth would "Prolonged", not be an appropriate word?

FDR certainly did not start the Great Depression. And he certainly did not end it.

So unless he had figured out a way for it to end decisively sometime after 1942 due to his policies and his policies alone, then prolong it is what he did.

Look, FDR was in some ways a good man and he meant well. He was a great wartime leader, mostly. And we all love those good things the New Deal left behind (Red Rocks, Hoover Dam, Orchard Beach). Nobody wants to take him off the Dime.

But as a purveyor sensible economic strategy, he was a flop.

Last edited by Moth; 11-23-2011 at 03:10 PM..
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:05 PM
 
6,137 posts, read 4,843,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Smoot-Hawley was the first major legislation passed by FDR.
That was Hoover not FDR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Rather than lower unemployment, which had yet to really skyrocket, it sent it into double-digits. FDR followed with other legislation, thousands of executive orders, price controls, etc.
The price and wage controls were disastrous IMO. I give the man credit for enacting relief programs that were absolutely necessary but as far as long term economic policy goes, I'm just not buying it. Unemployment was in the high teens and twenties up until the war.

Of course the war itself was just more Keynesianism (which works temporarily) but immediately after the war we had a tremendous edge and that's when we really boomed and it was only thanks to that we were able to pay off our debts from the prior Keynesianism relatively easily.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,712,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
I was born 10 days after FDR was officially elected by the electoral college and as poor as we were we never really knew how bad it was till after the War ended. Things did start to pick up after that but nothing changed a whole lot while he was in office.

When you talk about employment picking up while FDR was in office you are including the CCC, PWA, and WPA and those were nothing but being paid subsistence wages by the government. More of that government paying people to avoid the high numbers of unemployment. You do know that Obama and his advisors think the same thing about employment that FDR thought, I think.
So you would have rather preferred to have the employment situation from before FDR took office. Of course you would. You were what, about 5-10 years old?
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:09 PM
 
13,609 posts, read 20,664,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBarrow View Post
That was Hoover not FDR.



The price and wage controls were disastrous IMO. I give the man credit for enacting relief programs that were absolutely necessary but as far as long term economic policy goes, I'm just not buying it. Unemployment was in the high teens and twenties up until the war.

Of course the war itself was just more Keynesianism (which works temporarily) but immediately after the war we had a tremendous edge and that's when we really boomed and it was only thanks to that we were able to pay off our debts from the prior Keynesianism relatively easily.
I stand corrected. Thanks.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:10 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,290 posts, read 87,099,452 times
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the trick to 4 terms is create a crisis and then present yourself as the sole solution.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
FDR was elected four times because he actually tried to do something about unemployment. No, unemployment didn't drop to pre-crash levels until the War, but it dropped through most of the 30s (I think the recession of 1937 was the exception). And while the New Deal didn't end the depression, it certainly didn't get worse, which it likely would have had FDR done nothing.

FDR also created work programs which saved families from starving. Plenty of people in the 30s knew that. Social Security also proved popular as it lifted many elderly out of poverty, and prevented even more from becoming poor.

He also, like Reagan, projected a confidence in the American people and from that, and optimism that everything would be okay, that things would work out in the end. His friends, family and acquaintences can all vouch for that character trait, which people find attractive in a leader.

The man was one of the greatest men we ever had in the oval office. I know most Republicans hate the man and would disagree, but they're wrong. He was far, far from perfect, and I certainly don't agree with everything he did, but for the times, he did a good job with what was handed to him, and honestly, if the people elected him four times, they must have seen some improvement themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Let me start this by saying, not everything tha Roosevelt signed into law created jobs or helped the economy.

But the biggest thing he brought to office was a feeling that we could do it again. America wasn't done, the glass is half full, etc.

He made people feel good about their country and their stances. And yeah, he put a bunch of poor folks to work and created all kinds of debt doing it, but it made people think they could do something again. Long term unemployment is staggering to our nation, because it proves the American dream false. You can work hard, do your job, and keep out of trouble and still not make it here.

What ended the depression, was the war. Plain and simple. Its what jump started everything. Massive government spending from debts we were buying from Europe and Russia. We were buying their debt, and they loaning England a military.

Then the actual entry into the war in January of 1942 really blew up.

The war department went into Ford, GM's, Chrysler, and AMC's headquaters and said "This is the last day you will build cars, now you will build airplanes"

Within two weeks they had planes rolling off the line.

Its why the 1945 and 1946 models were the exact same as the 1941 model cars.
FDRs policies had different effects on the depression. some did good things for the country, he spent money to build the infrastructure and keep as many people as possible working. other policies however actually held business back, which did in fact help prolong the depression. another thing FDR did was raise taxes during that time, and that also held back the economy.

FDR however did keep the spirits of the people up due to his positive outlook, and his constantly telling the people that they mattered, and that the country would rebound from the depression.

but FDR and some of his anti business policies were not the only thing that held the economy back at that time, the fact that the people were eliminating the huge debt they had accrued during the mid to late 20s meant that consumer spending, the actual backbone of the economy, was necessarily low compared to economic good times.

and it also was not FDR or the people that helped prolong the depression either, you have to also give hoover part of the blame as some of his policies hurt american businesses as well, specifically the smoot-hawley tariff act, which hurt the sale of US goods overseas until the outbreak of world war two.

like to today, there is plenty of blame to go around for the great depression, both its happening in the first place, and the length of time it took to get out of it.

and while obama is seen by some to be trying to solve our economic issues, he is in fact exacerbating them with his profligate spending on failed programs, and then pushing more of the same. FDR tried positive things to soften the depression, obama is doing the opposite at this point.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:18 PM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,781,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
the trick to 4 terms is create a crisis and then present yourself as the sole solution.
Don't think Obama doesn't know this.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:21 PM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,781,577 times
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Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Mises Institute! Isn't that the source of the Ron Paul Bible? You know, the group who's stated position is any Govt involvement is economically and socially destructive. OoooKaaay, why am I hear "Twilight Zone" music....
Because Keynesians are programmed to ignore the logic of Austrian Economics even if that means drinking kool-aid and listening to pre-programmed muzak.

Try reading the articles and book downloads offered through the Ludwig von Mises institute, dot Bob, you may just have a change of ideology.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,712,748 times
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Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Because Keynesians are programmed to ignore the logic of Austrian Economics even if that means drinking kool-aid and listening to pre-programmed muzak.
Austrian economics is an ideology, and solely for ideologues. Never implemented in a society with proper government, never will be.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:24 PM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,781,577 times
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Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Austrian economics is an ideology, and solely for ideologues. Never implemented in a society with proper government, never will be.
Actually it has been implemented and worked: clue 1920 Depression.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czcUmnsprQI

No, it will not be implemented, at least not as long as the Progressives, Keynesians, and The FED can stop it. That alone should make you wonder.

But hey, Obama can just re-implement the same failed policies of FDR. Yes he can!

Last edited by lifelongMOgal; 11-23-2011 at 03:39 PM..
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