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From time to time I get curious about why Americans support Israel, if they do. It seems to me Tel Aviv's supporters may be grouped by motivation into a few broad categories:
1. Earnest Christians whose beliefs about Israel are based--often unconsciously--on Cyrus Scofield's interpretation of the Bible.
2. Jews who earnestly support Israel out of pride of heritage, faith, and/or because they have relatives there.
3. Jews who are afraid not to support Israel, lest they be labeled traitors.
4. Politicians who may not fall into categories 1 or 2, but who are aware of the power of the Israel lobby and support Tel Aviv to help ensure their own re-electability.
In high school I was taught that the United States supported Israel because the latter is "a democracy." Having learned a lot since then, I have a very hard time believing any American would support Israel for this reason alone, unless he or she knows no more about the Middle East than I did in high school.
From what I can tell, Israel is about as democratic as Turkey, which is to say, much less democratic than the United States. I've concluded that American support of Israel at the popular level has more to do with religion than with reason, and at the official level it's really more about power than it is about principle. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I call it like I see it.
From time to time I get curious about why Americans support Israel, if they do. It seems to me Tel Aviv's supporters may be grouped by motivation into a few broad categories:
1. Earnest Christians whose beliefs about Israel are based--often unconsciously--on Cyrus Scofield's interpretation of the Bible.
2. Jews who earnestly support Israel out of pride of heritage, faith, and/or because they have relatives there.
3. Jews who are afraid not to support Israel, lest they be labeled traitors.
4. Politicians who may not fall into categories 1 or 2, but who are aware of the power of the Israel lobby and support Tel Aviv to help ensure their own re-electability.
In high school I was taught that the United States supported Israel because the latter is "a democracy." Having learned a lot since then, I have a very hard time believing any American would support Israel for this reason alone, unless he or she knows no more about the Middle East than I did in high school.
From what I can tell, Israel is about as democratic as Turkey, which is to say, much less democratic than the United States. I've concluded that American support of Israel at the popular level has more to do with religion than with reason, and at the official level it's really more about power than it is about principle. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I call it like I see it.
I think that analysis is on the mark. Obviously there are atrocities committed on both sides. That is true in any conflict in history. Sure Israel is a strategic ally, but going overboard in our support to them alienates the "progressive" Arab allies we also need.
It also is taught in terrorist school 101 right after the US invasion of Iraq, after recess and before lunch, as a reason to hate the United States.
What is ironic and has been touched upon in other threads... is the fact the most diehard Israeli supporters in the U.S. are typically the Evangelical right crew, and most Jewish Americans vote Democratic because of the closer affiliation they feel with that party in terms of values and culture.
I have family members who are Israelis, so think I keep fairly well informed about all those "myths" about Israel.
That's a really unbiased way to find out facts !
I suggest you do a bit more research from International sources rather than Israeli or American ones. Pick up some history books and articles on the last 50 years of the problem by unbiased journalists, historians and experts.
I think History alone should teach you that Palestinian have been victims of appalling human rights and political injustice.
I have both Jewish and Palestinian friends and have visited both countries.
Even my Rabbi friend is appalled at Israel's brutal occupation and other atrocities.
1. Earnest Christians whose beliefs about Israel are based--often unconsciously--on Cyrus Scofield's interpretation of the Bible.
I was originally a theology major in college and spent a great deal of time studying this region of the world for obvious reasons. I would agree that many Christians in America for the sole reason of biblical references such as, "Gods chosen people" and many other like notations do and will continue to support Israel regardless of their actions.
What I find most appalling however it the serious and stark lack of open dialog about this most sensitive subject. This was something first pointed out to me by a dear friend who I attended college with that is now a journalist and occasionally writes for Haaretz. You can usually discuss topics such as Israeli policies and social issues with Jews in Israel, but when here in the United States you mention that you disagree with a certain aspect of Israeli policies or in whole, then you are often labeled as an anti-Semite.
We have to keep in mind that Israel is in fact a very powerful nation despite her size. She has arguably one of the best air forces on the planet, a modernized military apparatus that mirrors that of the United States and she is locked into a struggle with largely a civilian population. Israel is also surrounded by nations that wish to do her harm and she most certainly has a right to defend herself as does any sovereign nation. Given that though, Israel has also been guilty of shutting off water supplies and power recently to the Gaza, which is in fact a form of collective punishment. The Geneva convention has strict rules against the use of collective punishment as the great irony is that many Jews helped write these articles after WWII for the treatment of the Nazi's against Jews.
In the end, I wish the Israeli's and the Palestinians the best of luck in sorting out their most serious of grievances. However, as an American, my support can ultimately be given to this nation alone, and when I see 30 billion dollars going to Israel while American veterans receive what I see as substandard treatment, I have to say, sorry, no more. This goes for places like Egypt and Columbia as well.
So show me the AlJazeera sources. Clearly they must have pictures to base their reports on?
Not so easy finding sources a year old, especially when I saw it on television and did NOT read it on the web.
On the topic of democracy, Lebanon is pretty democratic for what it is as well. However, it's only a matter of time, with the decline of Christians (who made up 79% of all Lebanese in 1911, I believe. Now only 30%-45%), that some of it starts to disappear. Who knows? On the contrary, Muslims in Lebanon seem to be getting less religious and more democratic.
Not so easy finding sources a year old, especially when I saw it on television and did NOT read it on the web.
Well, unfortunately then there is no evidence to back up the claim, and only the very well known images of the girls writing, "With Love to Nazrala."
Again, however, I will sympathize with those up in arms about that when they express the same outrage for babies and children being dressed as suicide bombers and told the greatest honor they can do for their families is to be a suicide bomber.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak
On the topic of democracy, Lebanon is pretty democratic for what it is as well. However, it's only a matter of time, with the decline of Christians (who made up 79% of all Lebanese in 1911, I believe. Now only 30%-45%), that some of it starts to disappear. Who knows? On the contrary, Muslims in Lebanon seem to be getting less religious and more democratic.
From what I understand, there is still tension between Christian and Muslim Lebanese, and basically the best of Lebanon has always been in the Christian areas without the specter of Islamicism.
Is that true? What else explains the flight of Lebanese Christians from Lebanon?
No, one of us chooses to believe what he wants to hear, and the other chooses to believe what the best available facts bear out.
And, what makes you think your 'best available facts' are the truth? You're right. I do choose to believe what I want to hear. Just as you choose to believe what you want to hear. I choose to believe that the U.S. and Israel are the good guys and you choose to believe they are the bad guys. No biggie. That's what makes the world go round, differing opinions. Have a good day.
Is that true? What else explains the flight of Lebanese Christians from Lebanon?
Tensions aren't as high as they used to be. More intermarriages between the two religions (like my parents. Dad's a Muslim, Mom's a Christian). Still, however, Christians fear becoming a small minority. The general tensions in Lebanon put the Druze, Sunnis, and some Christians against the Shi'ites and other Christians. It's all government related. Druze, Sunnis, and most Christians are for the government, while Shi'ites and other Christians are opposed to them and pro-Hezbollah.
Lebanese Christians began to immigrate to the Americas in the middle through late 1800s into the early 1900s. It was all fine, and Lebanon still maintained a huge Christian majority. However, Muslims were having more kids than Christians. A lot more kids. With the Christians emigrating and the Muslims having many children, Muslims outnumbered Christians for the first time between the 1950s-1960s and have ever since. Additionally, during the Civil War, a number of the Lebanese population was killed and others moved out of the country, so I believe that had a huge toll on Christians as well.
There hasn't been a Census in Lebanon since 1932, mainly because Christians fear that it would show they are no longer a big majority and thus, their political spots would drop dramatically. For example, the president of Lebanon must always be a Maronite Christian. Who knows if a new Census would change that?
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Just didn't want to "show off".
