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Alex Jones Roy? Try and find some one who isn't a raving paranoid schizophrenic waiting for the black helicopters "any day now" (for the last 15+ years).
This thread is a bit more objective with links to .gov showing the bill and amendments.
Sorry, Memphis1979 - no one is listening because no one believes that any law could ever be used against them and their freedoms. As long as they are well-behaved and don't lie, cheat or steal or become a terrorist, they are complacent - even eager - about the laws, and the Executive Orders from both Bush and Obama that circumvent Congressional procedure and Supreme Court judiciary review. They don't merely want them, they demand them because they want to be protected and safe in their own homes, going to and from work, puttering about. After all, they have nothing to fear - they don't do anything wrong!
As a friend, seain dublin, pointed out last week, most people don't know history, don't understand the implications of ignoring it, and actually and honestly believe that anything that happened before they were born doesn't matter - all that matters is their own experience. They have no conception of what is going on in Washington, can't find Islamabad on a map, and yammer on about whatever sound byte they heard yesterday, without knowing or understanding how it all fits in to the big scheme of historical significance, or what it will mean to them tomorrow.
Basically this law declares all of America a 'battlefield', which - hooray! - means that terrorists who live next door to you can be treated as spies or enemy soldiers in "the War on Terror". What it can actually be construed to mean is that you, you miserable Tea Partier, Occupier, or yes, Acorn nut, depending on who is in power, can also be treated as an enemy spy or soldier. But, don't worry - that could never happen here! Just because Predator drones were first used to take out enemy terrorists from other countries, then an enemy terrorist from this country, without a trial or conviction, doesn't mean that any one in power will ever use it to break up a Tea Party rally or an Occupied Wall Street. No fear, right? Everything is done for our own good, and they are so much smarter than we, and they are only doing it to protect us, so we should support them, right?
We have been set up for years to accept the judgement of 'higher authorities' as always factual; the whole "where there's smoke, there's got to be fire" theory. First we were no longer "innocent until proven guilty" that has been denigrated to "prove your innocence". Then there were all of the child abuse accusations starting in the 1980s, where neighbors were dragged out of their homes, lost their children, their jobs, and were incarcerated, based on false accusations. Then there was the Southern Poverty Law Center who started exposing "home grown terrorists" - like the 65 year old woman who raises and cans her own food and writes a blog to tell others how to do it - and who happens to be outspoken in her protests against big government. The slow and steady progression of the eager acceptance of the rightness of big government - even now to blaming Wall Street for the very machinations of government that permitted, even demanded, Wall Street to take bailouts from taxpayers - continues. And most aren't even aware how they are being manipulated to accept each stage of the process, because they refuse to study history or comprehend what is going on around them.
This bill gives a far more darkly insidious interpretation to Pogo's - "We have met the enemy, and he is US!" If it isn't passed, or is amended, have no fear, they will keep trying (and usualy succeeding) to gradually take away all rights and freedoms. Do you hear an enormous sucking sound, like water down a toilet?
It seems that the Senate is getting ready to vote on this sad excuse for a law without much, if any, debate. It is being supported by members of both parties but some of the better enemies of it have read the parts that I don't want to see.
Oh well maybe we can plan on the House kicking this one in the butt and saving all of us who aren't liberal in thought and posting. I am toast if this thing passes.
It seems that the Senate is getting ready to vote on this sad excuse for a law without much, if any, debate. It is being supported by members of both parties but some of the better enemies of it have read the parts that I don't want to see.
Oh well maybe we can plan on the House kicking this one in the butt and saving all of us who aren't liberal in thought and posting. I am toast if this thing passes.
So a crazy person shouldn't be listened to at all?
If a person who has questionable mental ability eats a piece of dog crap, and tells you it tastes like crap, will you discount his position just because he is crazy?
A stopped clock (analog) is right twice a day, it doesn't change the fact it's busted. If people espouse enough diarrhea of the mind, eventually they will come up with a sentence that isn't insane or a lie. Most people value their time higher then to wade through thousands of pages (and check it) of crazy to find a glimmer, when there are so many normal people who actually logical reasoning skills, sanity, and validation for their statements.
I have never seen having taste buds equated to trusting some ones knowledge of political and economic theory
Personally, if I see a nutter I don't even waste my time. No point.
If you want to, go ahead. Don't be surprised if you get laughed at.
The White House has threatened to Veto the bill if those sections remain and Senator Mark Udall D-Colorado is offering an Amendment to remove those sections from the bill
Finally I must agree with you. My problem is with people like McCain being in favor of it as it is. I am very glad to see that some Democrats seem unready to vote for it without the changes.
"The bill was drafted in secret by Senators Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.), before being passed in a closed-door committee meeting without any kind of hearing."
McCain got the last vote he will ever get from me since he was the only real choice other than Obama. I have seen too many things like this from him since that time. It is a wonder I didn't vote for Obama to avoid McCain. I did clasp my nose firmly between thumb and forefinger when I cast that vote.
They've had that right since the patriot act was signed.
All they have to do is declare you as an "enemy combatant".
But they declared me an enemy combatant about 2 years ago but never came after me. You do remember when our present head of Homeland Security declared all veterans, enemy combatants, I hope.
Well they didn't come after me then but with this thing available I wonder how long before they have somebody reading my posts on forums like this one and come after me. Afterall, there are those FEMA camps that must be there for something.
Finally I must agree with you. My problem is with people like McCain being in favor of it as it is. I am very glad to see that some Democrats seem unready to vote for it without the changes.
I don't think it had any chance of surviving the Veto anyway so even without the Udall Amendment the chances of it becoming law as is seems close to nil, but the breakdown of the vote on the Udall Amendment will be interesting.
That must be one of the stupidest arguments I have ever read. Since you don't like what is going on, we should believe a raving lunatic of what is happening in the world...just because he speaks out against the same people?
Even a child has better reasoning skills then that, and probably wouldn't believe a raving nut like Jones that I'm pretty sure blames a conspiracy of bean producers every time he passes gas.
At least Jones has an explanation, he's crazy. The people who believe him without question after 15 years of people pointing out he's madder then a hatter don't have such a good excuse. Well, unless they are mad too I guess. It's good that Jones has turned his madness into a profit generating enterprise, taking advantage of the stupid and mad with extra cash. I do enjoy how he is able to fleece people using his schizophrenia, unlike most that end up under bridges and on street corners.
I thought Memphis wrote a very good post and most of the reason I repped him for it was that he was discussing the message. You attacked the messenger, like normal, and Alinsky and Lenin would be very proud to see you do that so well. Now how about you say something about the message. I guess you didn't notice that Jones wasn't the author of that piece, though, did you?
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