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How stupid are some people. Seventy five bucks is the mountainous fee they are charging for the county residents. Probably blew it at the casino instead. Now they're house burns down and it makes the news. Should make the news for dumbest people in the country especially when this already happened once and everybody around there knew the policy. Don't like it either move, or take your chances and have the garden hose at the ready. I'm surprised they even showed up. I'm guessing they make an exception and go in if somebody's life is on the line. This is another thing in life that isn't FREE no matter how much folks think it should be.
I agree this was stupid. However, you are making the assumption that this couple have a finite amount of money, and if they go to the casino, they won't be able to afford the fire ins.
RE: homeowner's ins, my guess is the owners didn't have it, b/c the insurer would probably require them to pay the fire fee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7
Any firefighter who sits and watches a home BURN, regardless of whether a fee was paid or not, should retire immediately. Moral cowards. More examples of eschewing pragmatism and what is right in favor of profits.
Oh. Right. Because doctors being forced by law to treat the uninsured and infirm that walk through their doors has put such a kabosh on private health care premiums.
Again, what is stopping them from rendering services now, and asking for compensation later, via collections or billing the homeowner's insurance?
It's dishonorable. Firefighters, like policemen, should not ask who has or has not paid the bill before acting to protect and serve. They are held to a higher standard of action. Those who do not pay their property tax bills still get police-run and city protection.
This isn't garbage pickup. This is life and death.
Business concerns over people and safety. Par for the course.
I think the firefighters (really, their bosses) made the right decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7
No, not billing their OWN insurance company, but passing the bill on as an expense to the homeowner's insurance company (if there is one).
We're talking SEVENTY FIVE DOLLARS here.
I'm sure the community members or homeowners themselves would pay AFTER the service is rendered. At least that's what we would expect in civilized society.
We stopped "private fire services for pay" about 200 years ago in the vast majority of the country for a reason. The county should impose the tax automatically.
If I've learned anything, it's to not be "sure" of anything.
If you want firefighting service to be provided, you pay for it in advance. Just like if you want insurance coverage, you pay for it in advance. If you don't pay for the firefighting service, why should anyone else? If no one pays for the firefighting service, how would it be available, to anyone?
The question is not whether firefighting is a RIGHT.
The question is whether the firefighters were RIGHT.
Big difference. Any firefighter who sits by, equipment in hand, while someone's home burns, deserves nothing but derision.
"I have my orders" went out of style at Nuremberg, and is no longer accepted as a valid excuse for inaction.
I think the firefighters (really, their bosses) made the right decision.
Yeah. Glad they made an example and gave them folks a lesson they soon won't forget. That'll learn em.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
If I've learned anything, it's to not be "sure" of anything.
I can be "sure" that any firefighting organization that is already on scene can stop by and spray some water on a burning house.
As a matter of fact, if my house is ever on fire, and a visiting firetruck from another municipality (that I do not pay taxes for) happens to be carting SANTA CLAUS around from the local Christmas parade just HAPPENS to be driving by at that same time, I would EXPECT and be SURE that the firefighters would STOP and render the aid they are trained to render.
That they work for a PRIVATE company and not a PUBLIC company is no excuse. If some of them want to lean on that excuse as a crutch, they can go for it, but deep down they know they know they're buying their own lame excuses.
The local community cannot just decide to charge people who don't live in the community fees or taxes. These people live OUTSIDE the community. The people IN the community have voted to pay a tax that supports the VOLUNTEER fire department in the community. The people IN the community have offered to people who live OUTSIDE the community to extend the firefighting services to their residences and businesses, if the people OUTSIDE the community pay a small fee to subscribe to the firefighting service.
The county can allow all the people living within the county to vote if they want to pay these fees as taxes. The county can't just arbitrarily decide to add taxes to county residents tax bills. It requires the people of the county to vote for such taxes. And many won't vote for such taxes, because it doesn't benefit them. If the fire department can't get to you within a certain amount of time, your house will burn down. That's a fact of rural living. If the only water source is your well, your house will burn down. Many rural residents don't pay the voluntary fees because it simply makes no difference. The fire department cannot respond quickly and doesn't have the resources to put out a fire if the homeowner can't put out the fire himself with the garden hose. Why pay for a service that is ineffectual?
The people who were the victims of the fire live in the county. The county should require all residents to pay for this via tax for the common good. Counties have governments/councils just like a city/town does. I live in metro Atlanta and we have multiple city/town and county government services. In Fulton County, where Atlanta is located there are people who are not residents of any city. They are county residents. The county makes them pay a tax for public safety so that they will be covered in an event related to fire or safety (police assistance).
Does this community not get the police sent for crimes? If so, how does that happen? More than likely it is because the county pays for police services via taxes. They can do the same for fire services.
The question is not whether firefighting is a RIGHT.
The question is whether the firefighters were RIGHT.
Big difference. Any firefighter who sits by, equipment in hand, while someone's home burns, deserves nothing but derision.
"I have my orders" went out of style at Nuremberg, and is no longer accepted as a valid excuse for inaction.
No, the question is whether firefighting service is a right.
In this sense, I'm defining a right as something to which we are entitled, whether we've paid for it or not.
You are saying that the firefighters had an obligation to risk their lives to save these people's house. But these aren't professional firefighters. They don't make a living fighting fires. These are volunteers. And they have a greater obligation to the community and its surrounds. That greater obligation is to be there. The members of the community that have voluntarily provided financial support to the fire department have an expectation that the firefighting services will continue to be available. The fire department cannot be in existence without that financial support. If the volunteer firefighters fought every fire, regardless if the person paid for the service or not, then the people who voluntarily pay for the service would dwindle, until there wouldn't be enough people to pay. And then no one would get firefighting services.
The moral thing to do for the firefighters is to save lives. A building is just a building, it's not worth someone's life. Yes, this was someone's home. But it was still just a building. Firefighting services for the people who value it enough to pay for it is more important than just a building. And that's what the issue is in rural areas. These homeowners didn't value the firefighting service enough to pay for it. Like many rural homeowners, they hoped it would never happen to them. Like many rural homeowners, they might have talked about it, and figured that even if their house caught fire, the firefighters might not have been able to get their fast enough, might not have had the resources to put out the fire. Because that's a reality of rural life. They played the odds, and it didn't work out for them.
No, not billing their OWN insurance company, but passing the bill on as an expense to the homeowner's insurance company (if there is one).
We're talking SEVENTY FIVE DOLLARS here.
I'm sure the community members or homeowners themselves would pay AFTER the service is rendered. At least that's what we would expect in civilized society.
We stopped "private fire services for pay" about 200 years ago in the vast majority of the country for a reason. The county should impose the tax automatically.
then 99% of the people would never pay because their house never burns down, and the Fire Dept. would never get money to run itself.
then 99% of the people would never pay because their house never burns down, and the Fire Dept. would never get money to run itself.
So let's say the firefighters went out and instead of standing around, put out the house fire.
First off, is ANYONE in town going to know that this family never paid the $75 fee?
Second, the natural conclusion drawn by people on this board is that people of the town, upon learning that this family's trailer burned and the firefighter company came and bailed them out is:
a) I don't have to pay because I'll get bailed out in an emergency!
vs.
b) Holy crap, that house burned down, I should get that insurance!
The question is not whether firefighting is a RIGHT.
The question is whether the firefighters were RIGHT.
Big difference. Any firefighter who sits by, equipment in hand, while someone's home burns, deserves nothing but derision.
"I have my orders" went out of style at Nuremberg, and is no longer accepted as a valid excuse for inaction.
Agreed, and what if children or elderly were in that structure? Do the firefighters play God at that point?
The County can still be sued for negligence/wrongful death. Since its in Tenn, the County officials should brush up on their statutes.
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