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Do you think this woman was wrongfully fired or did Macy's do the right thing by firing her? Moderator cut: see comment Let's stick to the topic at hand and not get into a religious debate of how you think being transgender is a sin.
I don't agree with what the worker the did and I think Macy's was right in firing her. How can you tell someone their not allowed to use the women's dressing room just because you think they look like a man. What if she was really a woman but had masculine features?
Last edited by txmusicgal; 12-08-2011 at 10:00 PM..
Reason: Politics & Religion goes in the P&OC Forum to start with
Likelihood of this thread getting out of control: 90%
How is this a 'religious' issue intrigues me and also makes me laugh. Somehow I don't think that the good book covers transgender issues... If it did, I'm sure it would be somewhere in the Old Testament. This woman is grasping at straws. Cheap, dollar store straws at that.
Something also tells me that if she was ever discriminated against for being black, she would yell, scream and not accept it.
If this was in fact a true transgender individual (ie, someone who's had sexual reassignment surgery), then this person is a LEGAL woman. Period. She should be able to use a female dressing room, as well as any normal female-based spot. Now, that being said, if this was simply a person who 'identified' as a female, but was all-man otherwise, I would take issue too. Articles I've read on this issue haven't really made that clear.
BN
PS: Why was this LOCAL, SAN ANTONIO-BASED thread moved? There was no reason to move this to a national level. This happened in our city. It's our issue.
A man is still a man regardless if he is missing his "junk" or if it is still intact. The worker had every right to be concerned about letting this man into the woman's dressing room. The transgendered customer should have not made a big fuss out of this but that is just my personal opinion.
This thread will spiral out of control indeed. Mention homosexuality or transgendered along with religion is just a recipe for disaster on any given thread.
[LEFT]"In May 2010, a transgender employee at a Macy's store in Torrance, Calif., sued the company, accusing it of gender discrimination and wrongful termination".
Aaaah, now we know the real reason this woman was fired. The "bottom line". So Macy's has chosen what side they are taking. Let's not upset this group. PC working again. Let's not back our employee, who we should be loyal to. Let's worry about a lawsuit, because we don't want our profit margin hit.
What is to stop ANY man from dressing as a woman, complete with make-up, and saying they are trans-gender? Prove it! I can see it if a man has made the legal change, or if he is living as a woman during the two year mandatory (is it still???) assimilation period required by a mental health expert. But proof please. Let's not give a loophole to any male who wants to scam the system, because any female is then at risk.
Macy's needs to stand by their employee, and since there have been problems with society today regarding the "sexual identity" issue, they need to have their high paid lawyers revise their policies and procedures to be consistent with today's many different types of customers.[/LEFT]
BTW, she still looks like a man (even though he's trying to pass as a woman).
“Transgender people exist and buy clothes and shop and should be treated with the same accommodations as any other person,” he said. “A transsexual woman is a woman. And if the employee's religious beliefs keep her from carrying out her functions on the job, then she should find another job.”
A reasonable accommodation for religious beliefs does not include the ability to discriminate based on some one's sexual orientation. It is the main portion of her job to serve customers no matter of their orientation, refusal to do so is considered a violation of the terms of her employment and undue hardship for the employer as likely lateral transfers still require her to serve customers no matter their orientation. This sort of thing has been litigated before.
Funny & somewhat related anecdotes: I once played in a joint concert (at Davies Symphony Hall) with the SF Gay Men's Chorus & Community Women's Orchestra - which was commonly referred to as a "lesbian orchestra," even though probably 25+% of us were straight. Anyway, at rehearsal one night I noticed a hand-written sign taped on the women's restroom, reading BIO GIRLS ONLY. I asked one of the men what that meant, and he said "It means only girls who were born girls should go in that one, sweetie." LOL! Another time I asked a gay friend where the women's restroom was at a gay club, and he replied "Does it matter in here?" Touche...
Personal stories aside, I think it matters more how a person identifies themselves... and of course if the woman is a post-op transsexual, they should be allowed in the women's restroom. I'm certainly not threatened by a born-male who identifies as female, especially considering they probably aren't attracted to women. I would view them as they view themselves, and we have stalls in our restrooms anyway. So yes, I do believe the store employee was out of line, and not performing excellent customer service - which seems to be an ongoing issue at Macy's, judging by a few recent experiences I've had there. In fact, I'm surprised they even FOUND somebody to help them! Seriously.
PS: Why was this LOCAL, SAN ANTONIO-BASED thread moved? There was no reason to move this to a national level. This happened in our city. It's our issue.
Because we can't have civil threads in the SA forum about local events involving gays without the homophobic people getting the thread shutdown. At least this way we might get a broader perspective on the issue. I agree this was a local issue but oh well.
Y'all do make some good points that I didn't even think about. Should they have to make a 3rd fitting room just for transgender people? What if the roles had been reversed and it was a female going into the men's fitting room? Would the men even care that a female went in there? Say it was a transgender male but she hadn't changed her parts yet and the Macy's worker was a male.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigan Transplant
Aaaah, now we know the real reason this woman was fired. The "bottom line". So Macy's has chosen what side they are taking. Let's not upset this group. PC working again. Let's not back our employee, who we should be loyal to. Let's worry about a lawsuit, because we don't want our profit margin hit.
It is always about the bottom line at any retail store. If they don't have customers they don't make money.
Y'all do make some good points that I didn't even think about. Should they have to make a 3rd fitting room just for transgender people?
They do have "family restrooms" where no gender is assigned, but those are usually single-use... I guess you could have a "family fitting room" too, if the logistical details were agreeable.
Quote:
What if the roles had been reversed and it was a female going into the men's fitting room? Would the men even care that a female went in there? Say it was a transgender male but she hadn't changed her parts yet and the Macy's worker was a male.
I doubt the men would care either, especially if she were outwardly male in appearance. And if the transgender individual chooses to use a certain room, that is obviously where they are most comfortable... so why not follow their lead? It's just a fitting room, and I assume they have doors/locks on every stall - so unless people are parading around the common areas without clothing, I don't really see why this is an issue.
Its hard being TRANSGENDER but this person SHOULD KNOW THAT AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY NOT TO OFFEND SOMEONE!! (They didnt it seems)
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So yes, I do believe the store employee was out of line, and not performing excellent customer service - which seems to be an ongoing issue at Macy's, judging by a few recent experiences I've had there. In fact, I'm surprised they even FOUND somebody to help them! Seriously.
