Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-11-2011, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,768,347 times
Reputation: 5691

Advertisements

I am pondering all the blue states that seemed to be most welcoming to "diversity" which are now experiencing "white flight" in record numbers. California leads the list. California has spent 40 years fawning over diversity,etc. and now white, nonhispanic people are leaving in droves, because "schools are failing",etc. Truth is, the state welcomed millions of uneducated peasants and test scores declined, even as the white boomers screwed their economy with Prop. 13 and other revenue starving techniques. Many hispanic-dominated towns now have high school graduation rates of < 60%. I don't think the teaching has changed nearly as much as the population. So, now it is all about failing teachers instead of admitting that most white, liberal parents are closet racists who want their kids around white, upper class kids in private schools or lily white states. They throw their teachers under the bus rather than confront the immigrants who do not value education (yes, I am talking about the hispanic parents). The immigrants are failing to rise to the standards that define the USA. To let your kid drop out of high school is not American, IMO.

I am wrestling with this myself. As a teacher and a liberal parent, I am a staunch supporter of public schools, but when I explore less affluent, minority-dominated areas to relocate, people assume I would never raise my child there. It seems to me that most liberals are just as racist as conservatives, but they are less honest about it. I am personally conflicted about this, I like to see a diversity of kids at a school, and I know that immigrants built this country. I also don't think that lowered average test scores will negatively affect my kid's achievements. But I don't want a bunch of yahoo, criminal types around either. I went to school where I was frequently throwing down with cholos, vatos, and other badazzes going nowhere. I don't wish that on my son.

So, like many conservatives, I am probably somewhat racist in my views, but at least I don't think I am a hypocrite. At this point in time, and from my observations (how many of you have met people who have been in the country 20 year who cannot speak English?), I assume that most immigrants will not be a net improvement on our country, they raise welfare rates and crime, and they lower educational attainment rate. America is a privelidge, and immigrants need to rise to the challenge, not spread blight and crime. Like the black mothers would tell their children, "you have to be twice as good." I think that is true. It is about building respect and trust. Asian-Americans have largely done this. Most other groups have not.

I would love to be wrong about all this, but someone will have to convince me that letting in uneducated illegal immigrants, putting up bilingual signs, etc. will strengthen our country. The onus is on the immigrants, not me. Not very nice, perhaps, but I think a bit more honesty up front would be a good thing. I think many blue staters feel the same as red staters, but they use a lot of code words (bad schools...) as code for their racist attitudes.

What do you think?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-11-2011, 12:47 PM
 
4,255 posts, read 3,481,530 times
Reputation: 992
All people ar hypocrits including myself. Im opposed to all susideies, except to family farms. Why, because it benefits me. Very few people are opposed to things that benfit them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2011, 12:47 PM
 
2,125 posts, read 1,940,747 times
Reputation: 1010
Not all blue staters are white people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2011, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,768,347 times
Reputation: 5691
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunks_galore View Post
Not all blue staters are white people.
Good point. And taken.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2011, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,085 posts, read 12,060,763 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
I am pondering all the blue states that seemed to be most welcoming to "diversity" which are now experiencing "white flight" in record numbers.
Really? What is the migration rates based on race by state?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2011, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Georgia
1,258 posts, read 2,312,825 times
Reputation: 675
I largely agree with what you say. I believe black and to a lesser extent hispanic culture is very very broken and harmful to their groups as a whole. BUT...Being in GA, it doesnt seem quite as bad, at least from what Cali sounds like. Here there are some pockets where 'immigrants', 'illegals', hispanics...however you want to describe them are like what you described. But there are other areas where they do seem to at least attempt to assimilate somewhat....or at least their children do!

Blacks, i don't know, there do seem to be a larger and larger portion wanting to leave the 'ghetto mentality' victimhood crutch behind and do well for themselves in society, but then you see the areas that are just abysmal failures and they dont seem to care...

But I would never accuse somebody of being racist for wanting to avoid an area that has horrible schools, a largely gov't freebie dependant population, and high crime...even if it is mostly made up of minorities...Thats just common sense and you have every right in the world to not want to be around that!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2011, 01:04 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,227,522 times
Reputation: 18824
Meh...i think basing this on blue state/red state is a mistake anyway. California isn't a liberal state first of all. You know this. Huge swaths of that state are just as conservative as places in Texas. People automatically assume that the whole state is politically the same because the 3 major urban coastal centers are so populous. Actually San Diego can't even be considered as Liberal either.

This is like when people talk about "southern hospitality." There is no such thing. It's human nature to be rude, and it's human nature to be polite. Geography NEVER trumps human nature. In other words, you'll find the same cross section of A-holes in Alabama that you'll find in Michigan. No more, and no less.

As it pertains to race, of COURSE liberals can be racist! Or at least a bit prejudiced. Why? Because it's human nature. Just like geography doesn't trump human nature, neither does political ideology. All people want to live in nice places. All people want to send their children to good schools. All people want to live in a safe environment. Pointing that out doesn't make a person a racist...it's just being realistic. I'm black...i don't mind living in a majority black area, but i don't want to live in a ghetto black area anymore than a white person would. There is a fairly ghetto white area that's about half a mile from where i live, and i wouldn't live there either. No way. It's not because i'm prejudiced, or because i dislike white people (i don't), but because i have some basic standards for the area i want to raise my family in.

I can understand what you're saying on the immigrant thing too because i live only about 19 miles from the border as the crow flies. I'm for immigration, and i have no problem with Hispanics coming here to make a better living for themselves. I also want them to learn English and respect the laws and values of this country....otherwise, stay home please. I think we (liberals AND conservatives) make it far too easy for people to come here and NOT learn English, and it's had a very detrimental effect on the students who aren't being immersed into the English language.

And the attack on teachers really p*sses me off. Conservatives are the leaders of that movement, but Libs do it too. Blame the teachers because the parents are falling down on the job. Drives me nuts. Even the so called "poor" school districts have teachers that are willing to teach these children. It's a lie that the teachers are doing a poor job of teaching these kids. It's like they want teachers to be social workers instead of educators. My son is currently in school getting his M.E. to become a teacher....i feel sorry for him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2011, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,768,347 times
Reputation: 5691
Hey Desert,

Good your son. I respect teachers. They have a hard, important job, and they don't get nearly enough respect.

Good post.

I should clarify that I am all for immigrants coming here to fulfill the immigrant promise. Improve your life, etc. Coming here to have large families who drop out of school does not impress me. It is like getting into Harvard and ditching class...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2011, 06:00 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,698,390 times
Reputation: 23268
School Infrastructure is specifically EXEMPT from Prop 13 limits...

55% voter approval for school construction/maintenance measures and it is a done deal.

Sadly, Prop 13 is misunderstood by most and the major whipping boy of this state...

If you want to restore California Schools... a good place would be returning local funding to districts...

The schools ills and a big reason for Prop 13 existence was in response to the State taking over public education from local communities and look how that has worked.



My father taught public High School and a number of my friends are teachers... one thing that surprised me is how many took a leave of absence to home school their own children and even a couple put their daughters in private schools instead of the districts where they earn their bread and butter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2011, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,768,347 times
Reputation: 5691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
School Infrastructure is specifically EXEMPT from Prop 13 limits...

55% voter approval for school construction/maintenance measures and it is a done deal.

Sadly, Prop 13 is misunderstood by most and the major whipping boy of this state...

If you want to restore California Schools... a good place would be returning local funding to districts...

The schools ills and a big reason for Prop 13 existence was in response to the State taking over public education from local communities and look how that has worked.



My father taught public High School and a number of my friends are teachers... one thing that surprised me is how many took a leave of absence to home school their own children and even a couple put their daughters in private schools instead of the districts where they earn their bread and butter.
Schools need more than infrastructure in California.

The notion that public school teachers send their own kids to private school is an example of the hypocrisy. The public schools are good enough for YOUR kids, but not mine. Sad really. I am a bit surprised that many teachers could afford private school though. I would be willing to bet the kids are white and the schools have large minority populations. Seems like for all the talk of diversity, many parents don't want their kids to be in diverse schools. I will admit, this is all complex, so I will try to put the moralizing on low beam.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:23 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top