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The U.S. is the only industrialized nation that has no form of universal health insurance. And contrary to popular right wing bullcrap, it has arguably the worst care of all the industrialized nations -- worst as in more medical mistakes than most or even all of the major industrialized nation with <gasp> socialized healthcare.
Americans are brainwashed into believing that they've got the best of everything. We've been brainwashed for years. And quietly, all along, we've slid to the point where nearly 1 in 2 of us is living just above (or below) the poverty line. The middle class is shrinking out of existence. Even those who are middle class are buried in debt, so that one trip to the hospital or one six-month period of unemployment would put them into the sh*thouse right alongside everyone else.
Sometimes you have to get two maybe even three jobs if the economy cannot support you with one.
20yrsinBranson
This is all well and good, and I don't entirely disagree with this.
But this is becoming the norm, Branson. Not the exception; the norm. At what point do we ask, 'What kind of country is the United States of America becoming?' Does it have to be this way? Aren't we the 'can-do' country?
I agree with pretty much your whole post. Probably the only place we differ is that I hold less faith that the dems are any different from the reps. (I guess I'm jaded by all the hard talk towards the oil companies and then guess who got the biggest campaign contributions from Exxon in 2008 prez elections?)
The bickering about campaign contributions from corporations always makes for a good amusement, especially if a person also things that Citizens United decision ought to be defended. What do you think?
[quoteInsurance companies WOULD LOVE healthcare reform if they are allowed to charge reasonable rates. Think of all the new people forced to buy insurance from them. [/quote]
Instead of playing with words, how about we try to answer this simple question: Do insurance companies love Health Care Reform?
What is your take on it?
Quote:
Let me pose the question another way. If the government was going to ban mandatory auto insurance do you think Statefarm, Geico, Allstate etc. would object?
They would, of course. The question is, do they hate regulations or would they lobby for it (such as those imposed by health care reform)? In other words, just go ahead and answer my question above.
Quote:
The healthcare companies just don't want some big govt. program to come in and run them all out of business. Personally I think there is a happy-medium...as the governments track record of running insurance operations like this is dismal. (Just yesterday Illinois announced their pre-paid college tuition plan is 1.6billion in the red and they stopped selling contracts. )
You're speaking from both ends, again. We can keep it simple, by focusing on the simple question, perhaps to rephrase the earlier question:
Would a typical insurance company lobby against the repeal of health care reform?
If your response is "yes", my disbelief would look for evidence. If your answer is "no", then your earlier point that health care reform was promoted by insurance companies doesn't hold a candle.
Most people under the age of 26 have few health problems. So if your insurance company raised your premium to cover them, odds are you added to the grotesque wealth of your health insurance CEO.
This is a generalization, and who cares about 'most people' if you're one of the millions of people under the age of 26 who actually does have a health issue?
Someone under the age of 26 in Canada, New Zealand, Australia, UK, France, Germany, and the Netherlands....is going to get better medical care than someone in the United States.
Infants are more likely to die in the United States than they are in Cuba -- Cuba!
The bickering about campaign contributions from corporations always makes for a good amusement, especially if a person also things that Citizens United decision ought to be defended. What do you think?
[quoteInsurance companies WOULD LOVE healthcare reform if they are allowed to charge reasonable rates. Think of all the new people forced to buy insurance from them.
Instead of playing with words, how about we try to answer this simple question: Do insurance companies love Health Care Reform?
What is your take on it?
They would, of course. The question is, do they hate regulations or would they lobby for it (such as those imposed by health care reform)? In other words, just go ahead and answer my question above.
You're speaking from both ends, again. We can keep it simple, by focusing on the simple question, perhaps to rephrase the earlier question:
Would a typical insurance company lobby against the repeal of health care reform?
If your response is "yes", my disbelief would look for evidence. If your answer is "no", then your earlier point that health care reform was promoted by insurance companies doesn't hold a candle.[/quote]
I didn't think I said they PROMOTED HC reform as much as once the ball started rolling they wanted to make sure that whatever reforms were enacted would benefit them. So, I would think that currently they would not be looking to repeal the law.
I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't try to characterize the difficulty of written communication as me "talking from both ends" if you want to continue having a discussion. Your literary stylings aren't going to win a prize either and I know I'm not always the best communicator.
I didn't think I said they PROMOTED HC reform as much as once the ball started rolling they wanted to make sure that whatever reforms were enacted would benefit them. So, I would think that currently they would not be looking to repeal the law.
You would like to think so, because that is how you want to see and present a situation. It doesn't define the reality though, evidence and fact based argument would. I take it that you pulled that out of thin air, while we see how much crying there is, about health care reform from the insurance industry. Certainly not an argument you should present as them having supported and in support of what is presented in the media as "government takeover".
Quote:
I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't try to characterize the difficulty of written communication as me "talking from both ends" if you want to continue having a discussion. Your literary stylings aren't going to win a prize either and I know I'm not always the best communicator.
Forget awards, I'm not even looking for proper grammar, just logic. When I see a mess, I point at it.
You would like to think so, because that is how you want to see and present a situation. It doesn't define the reality though, evidence and fact based argument would. I take it that you pulled that out of thin air, while we see how much crying there is, about health care reform from the insurance industry. Certainly not an argument you should present as them having supported and in support of what is presented in the media as "government takeover".
Forget awards, I'm not even looking for proper grammar, just logic. When I see a mess, I point at it.
Ah, so the HI companies hate it when the govt. forces you to buy their products. Great logic!
If you can't be civil and reasonable and put in the effort to have a complicated discussion about a complicated issue and then offering insulting jibes then I leave you to shoot moronic pundits at the fox news crowd that lurks in these parts.
Ah, so the HI companies hate it when the govt. forces you to buy their products. Great logic!
If you can't be civil and reasonable and put in the effort to have a complicated discussion about a complicated issue and then offering insulting jibes then I leave you to shoot moronic pundits at the fox news crowd that lurks in these parts.
Insurance companies don't hate opportunities. They want more of them. Remember that yesterday I was reading about how poor insurance companies are being forced into raising premiums, or poor them being forced into spending more of the premiums on health care. Or that how having more people in the system is raising your premiums? They all make for cute excuses, and some of them also happen to be what these health insurance companies want opponents to be screaming. It works to their advantage. Remember, health care reform was supposedly a plan to kill the health insurance company. Were the people screaming that lying or are delusional?
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