Chick Fil A and boycott (Jesus, financial, gay people, money)
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Hence the word "promoting". You are promoting discrimination when you promote the idea that only heterosexuals should be allowed to marry or adopt.
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Originally Posted by Fleet
That's your opinion.
Which part are you disagreeing with?
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Originally Posted by Fleet
Traditional marriage is "horrible?" See why I can't debate with some people? How can I debate irrationality?
No one said traditional marriage is horrible. I said you "standing for traditional marriage" (which, again, means you are against gay marriage) is horrible. And I explained why, and you have failed to address any of the points I've made or provide some of your own.
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Originally Posted by Fleet
Those who claim to be "tolerant" and "willing to listen to other opinions" are the first ones who call those these don't agree with "homophobe" and "bigot." And "hateful."
If not intolerance, then what?
If not homophobia, then what?
If not bigotry, then what?
If not hate, then what?
What motivates you to believe gays shouldn't be allowed to get married? It's a simple question.
Why impose a religious standard on an entire country that may or may not believe in that standard? Sounds like passing a law respecting an establishment of religion.
Not all of this is religious, not at all. I ask why change the meaning of marriage that is centuries old and what most people in the world believes. Muslim, Asians and all other countries and nationalities. etc. Marriage the way it is has served the world just fine up to this time.
No one said traditional marriage is horrible. I said you "standing for traditional marriage" (once more, meaning you are against gay marriage) is horrible. And yet again, I explained why, and you have failed to address any of the points I've made or provide some of your own.
No such thing as "gay marriage," so how can it be horrible to oppose it? It's more like a "pretend marriage."
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If not intolerance, then what?
If not homophobia, then what?
If not bigotry, then what?
If not hate, then what?
Values, morals and beliefs. And believing what is best for society.
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What motivates you to believe gays shouldn't be allowed to get married? It's a simple question.
Do you really have to ask? I oppose it due to religious and moral reasons. And because I believe in traditional marriage and that means between one man and one woman. A simple answer.
You're saying I'm ignorant in regards to history? Do you have proof of this claim? I have been studying history since 2001. I have a library of over 5000 books, and only a handful of them are fictional, including the bible, the rest of my library is non-fictional books on various topics. The bulk of my library is as follows and in order of collection size: History, philosophy(including religion), geology, astronomy, biology, and genealogy, the rest is a mix of various studies.
I have also volunteered on two separate archeological digs. I don't even have a degree in history and I have already shown to have more knowledge regarding all of the so called "traditions" you have mentioned.
First you claimed that this country was founded on Christian principles, which any 1st year history student knows isn't true based on the profiles of the founding fathers and based on the treaty of Tripoli.
Then you claim that Christmas has always been recognized by all Americans, we know for a fact that not all Americans celebrate Christian holidays, but as you claim to be a historian you should know that even more so, and you should also know that the US Government didn't recognize Christmas as a national holiday until 1870, until that time the government was business as usual.
You claim that there are no historical records of same-sex marriage, yet even when we show you that there are and I have several times, you brush them off as gay propaganda. It doesn't matter what we present to you, true or not, you will deny it.
You are the definition of willful ignorance. You lie in order to fulfill your hate propaganda. If you are a historian, which I doubt, you should be ashamed of yourself.
One absurdity at the time.
When did you show me examples of same-sex marriages in antiquity?
When did you show me actual Greek or Roman laws establishing same-sex marriage?
Typed on a phone: please excuse my grammer and spellink...
No one said traditional marriage is horrible. I said you "standing for traditional marriage" (once more, meaning you are against gay marriage) is horrible. And yet again, I explained why, and you have failed to address any of the points I've made or provide some of your own.
If not intolerance, then what?
If not homophobia, then what?
If not bigotry, then what?
If not hate, then what?
What motivates you to believe gays shouldn't be allowed to get married? It's a simple question.
If not intolerance, then what?
It's intolerant to want to change the meaning of a tradition and forcing it on others who want to keep that long held tradition. We were here first. Traditional marriage has served mankind for what----forever? Now a minority says we don't like that so do as we say.
If not homophobia, then what?
You don't understand the meaning of phobia if you say that. No one goes and lays on a therapist couch to get rid of fear of gays. There is no phobia involved here.
If not bigotry, then what?
Not liking a way a person behaves in not bigotry. Then not liking adultery is bigotry and that is just silly.
If not hate, then what?
It's not hate. I don't hate people who are doing wrong (well unless they are doing wrong to me an mine but that is a different thread) Most people just feel sorry some people can't have normal sexual relations or normal sexual feelings. If you ask me what is normal most will say how the majority behaves. You may not like it but that is how normal is described.
You don't think that saying to one group "You can't have the same rights as that group over there" is discrimination?
And rest assured, the rights are defined as such:
Heterosexuals can marry whoever they want that is of the legal age to consent, unrelated, and unmarried. Homosexuals cannot marry whoever they want that is of the legal age to consent, unrelated, and unmarried.
But you don't think that's discrimination, eh?
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Originally Posted by Fleet
No such thing as "gay marriage," so how can it be horrible to oppose it? It's more like a "pretend marriage."
Regardless of what you decide to call it, you're against them being able to enjoy the same rights as you enjoy. And you have yet to provide factual evidence - or even an argument NOT based on factual evidence - to support your so-called "morals".
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Originally Posted by Fleet
Values, morals and beliefs. And believing what is best for society.
You've already told us these are your values, "morals" and beliefs. I'm asking what motivates you to commit to them? WHY have you chosen these values, "morals" and beliefs?
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Originally Posted by Fleet
Do you really have to ask? I oppose it due to religious and moral reasons.
And because I believe in traditional marriage and that means between one man and one woman. A simple answer.
Which leads us back here
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
I challenge the claim that believing in "traditional marriage" only is valuable and morally just. Would you blame "God" or some unverifiable/false claim about homosexuals for this view? Because the bible doesn't say you shouldn't allow gays to get married (In fact, considering the whole "free will" concept, he seems to be about letting "sinners" go ahead and "sin" more than anything else). He only says it's wrong. But if you would blame it on him, where is your opposition to giving all the other "sinners" the same rights as you enjoy? Personal prejudice revealed.
Or maybe you don't blame it on "God". Maybe you think it would harm society to let gays marry or adopt. But the evidence contradicts that kind of thinking as well. Here is evidence that might suggest gays are just as good (better, actually) at making a marriage work than heterosexuals:
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