Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It seems to be that lesbians get less flack than gay males. I wonder why that is.
It's because there is nothing in the Bible that preaches against it. It's also less "icky" to sexually insecure, weak, confused, homophobic, self loathing, men who are married to women.
It's because there is nothing in the Bible that preaches against it. It's also less "icky" to sexually insecure, weak, confused, homophobic, self loathing, men who are married to women.
That's a good start. Let's see if some folks can add to that.
It's because there is nothing in the Bible that preaches against it.
Romans 1 Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Studying the Bible is my favorite hobby, so I do not assume. Book of Romans does not use the word 'homosexual', but rather describes the act, so there is no mistaking it. Other verses in the Bible also decribe the act rather than give it a name. For example "'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman". There is no need to use the word homosexual, because it is clear what they are talking about.
Romans 1 doesn't describe same sex behavior as the sin, it describes pagan hedonism and the worship of animals as the sin. It also refers to exchanging their behavior. Gay people have nothing to exchange to be gay. The only thing that can refer to is naturally born heterosexuals turning to that which they would never normally do if it weren't for paganism. This verse also comes from Plato's philosophy.
A scholarly commentary on Romans 1 from Lutheran Seminary:
As for Leviticus, I thought you just said studying the Bible is a hobby of yours, and yet you ignore the fact that Leviticus is written in HEBREW!
1) Why does,"as with a woman" exist in that verse? Why doesn't it say, "A man shall not lie with a man"? There is a conditional clause added for a reason, even if you only look at the English.
2) Are you aware that "to lie" with a man, and "to lie" with a woman are 2 entirely different words in Hebrew that don't mean the same thing? English does not make that distinction, and the first "to lie" is always used in the Bible to refer to forced/deceptive sexual behavior, for example, Lot's daughters getting him drunk and raping him is the same word "to lie" as in the above verse. Are you also aware, in Hebrew, the "as with a woman" phrase, while it doesn't make much sense in Hebrew or English, most closely means "in the lyings of woman". This may either refer to the crime being done in a woman's bed, or making a man submissive like would be acceptable to do to a woman since they were mere sexual property. This again, is a patriarchal cultural issue.
3) If you look at the way Leviticus is structured, you'll see that the verse in question is in an odd place. It makes an abrupt jump and specifically spells out that the verse in question is referring to the pagan worship practices of the Egyptians and Caananites. It's a direct reference to heterosexual men, going into the temples of the god Molech, drinking/doing drugs for a state of europhia, while paying the temple prostitutes for sex in order to bring favor from the fertility goddesses. It is 100% cultural, and the Israelites were forbidden from engaging in pagan prostitution, so as to not be connected to the Egyptians and Caananites ( a theme, well established in the Bible where God set the Israelites apart from the rest of society). See Deuteronomy 23 which specifically says Israelites are not to become temple prostitutes.
4) The word abomination in those verses does not mean that in Hebrew. In Hebrew, it's To'evah, which means taboo or ritually impure. This goes directly to the above reference that it was taboo for the Israelites to engage in the pagan practices of their surrounding cultures, specifically pagan prostitution.
5) If we look at how Jewish law works, in order for the charge of a crime to be brought forward, there had to be numerous conditions met. Jewish law hard arguably one of the most impossible burdens of proof in human history. It was essentially impossible to ever meet it. Consensual, same-sex relations in one's home would NEVER EVER meet the burden of proof under Jewish law. It had to be a public crime, with lots of witnesses, and only pagan prostitution would fit that charge. No man has ever been charged with the crime of homosexuality according to the Talmud.
As a result, it was next to impossible to convict someone of a capital offense in Judaism.
And 6) There are 613 laws in the Torah. Christians might follow a dozen of them by accident. The Torah law was written for the Israelites, not for Christians. So until you start executing people who work on Saturdays, stoning rape victims and children who badmouth their parents, or view wearing mixed fabrics or entering the temple with eyeglasses as abominations, you have no business EVER citing Leviticus to condemn anyone. The Torah does not apply to anyone in the modern era except Haredi Jews, and even they can't follow the majority of it.
Romans 1 doesn't describe same sex behavior as the sin, it describes pagan hedonism and the worship of animals as the sin. It also refers to exchanging their behavior. Gay people have nothing to exchange to be gay. The only thing that can refer to is naturally born heterosexuals turning to that which they would never normally do if it weren't for paganism. This verse also comes from Plato's philosophy.
No, it descibes homosexual acts (and sexual immorality in general) as sins. It also mentions other sins:
- evil
- greed
- depravity
- envy
- murder
- strife
- deceit
- malice
- gossip
- slander
- God hating
- arrogance
- boastfulness
- creating new ways of doing evil
- disobeying parents
- infidelity
- unlovingness
- unmercifulness
- approving sin of others
And it states the following : Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them
Read it for yourself:Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Quote:
As for Leviticus, I thought you just said studying the Bible is a hobby of yours, and yet you ignore the fact that Leviticus is written in HEBREW!
Yes, I know. I never claimed it was written in some other language The verse I quoted talks about gay sex. Period.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 12-23-2011 at 02:46 PM..
Studying the Bible is my favorite hobby, so I do not assume. Book of Romans does not use the word 'homosexual', but rather describes the act, so there is no mistaking it. Other verses in the Bible also decribe the act rather than give it a name. For example "'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman". There is no need to use the word homosexual, because it is clear what they are talking about.
Oh, I see.
So if the sex is between two ladies, then it's okay, right?
Besides if two guys have sex, say, standing up or in a sitting position ... that must be okay too, right. After all it specifically states if a man "lies with a man" ... so there is a loop-hole there I guess.
So if the sex is between two ladies, then it's okay, right?
Besides if two guys have sex, say, standing up or in a sitting position ... that must be okay too, right. After all it specifically states if a man "lies with a man" ... so there is a loop-hole there I guess.
It says "Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones".
Kudos to those two women for their service and for their happiness with each other.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The verse I quoted talks about gay sex. Period.
