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Old 12-22-2011, 11:53 AM
 
82,182 posts, read 39,431,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
That article is about a narrow portion of taxes that Reagan addressed. It speaks nothing of personal income taxes, which were largely changed in 1986.
Notice how the tax brackets were not adequately adjusted for inflation, either. Had they been so, the top tax bracket would start at an income of about $3.5 million, NOT the $250,000 Obama likes to demonize now.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 27,693,416 times
Reputation: 12317
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
How is that unequal? Someone who earns 250 times more than someone else will be paying 250 times more tax than that person.
If you gave sincere thought to it, you would know.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 27,693,416 times
Reputation: 12317
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
How on earth did you draw the correlation that because income inequality isn't bad that more income inequality must be good?
What is this thread about? I'm arguing against the idea that greater inequality is a bad thing. You?

Quote:
I never once said that more income inequality is a good thing. What an absurd argument.
Do you have a post along those lines I can look at?
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:04 PM
 
82,182 posts, read 39,431,767 times
Reputation: 12066
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
If you gave sincere thought to it, you would know.
What's not fair about a flat tax? Everyone pays the same tax rate. Very low income; very low tax bill. Very high income; very high tax bill. There would be some paying many, many times more than others for the same government benefits and services.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:09 PM
 
9,856 posts, read 14,660,469 times
Reputation: 5468
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
What is this thread about? I'm arguing against the idea that greater inequality is a bad thing. You?
Income inequality is not a bad thing. That is not to say we should cheer for more of it. Income inequality promotes competition. It pushes people to work harder. It prevents a DMV worker mentality. If a person is paid the same regardless of actual effort, a person will not work harder.

Quote:
Do you have a post along those lines I can look at?
So let me get this straight. You put words in my mouth and made the false claim that I thought more income inequality is a good thing, I clarify the issue by refuting the claim that you completely made up, and now I have to come up with a post about it?

If something is not bad, that does not mean more of whatever it is is something to strive for. Income inequality is a motivator and is an indication of a healthy and growing economy. Now are you going to post anything of substance, or are you simply stating opinions without backing anything up?
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 27,693,416 times
Reputation: 12317
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
What's not fair about a flat tax? Everyone pays the same tax rate. Very low income; very low tax bill. Very high income; very high tax bill. There would be some paying many, many times more than others for the same government benefits and services.
Conservative mindset getting in the way. The reality is a lot more than what you can see, or perceive. Tell me, how is it fair for someone barely getting by on necessities to pay 10% on income tax compared to a person making 1000 times more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Income inequality is not a bad thing. That is not to say we should cheer for more of it. Income inequality promotes competition. It pushes people to work harder. It prevents a DMV worker mentality. If a person is paid the same regardless of actual effort, a person will not work harder.
We can agree on that. Where we might disagree is that hard work doesn't always translate to more income. In fact, it rarely does. There are a LOT of factors that determine income. Do you disagree?

Quote:
So let me get this straight. You put words in my mouth and made the false claim that I thought more income inequality is a good thing, I clarify the issue by refuting the claim that you completely made up, and now I have to come up with a post about it?
No, I didn't see you post along the lines, until now. So, I chose not to put words in your mouth and instead have you say it.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:11 PM
 
9,856 posts, read 14,660,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Conservative mindset getting in the way. The reality is a lot more than what you can see, or perceive. Tell me, how is it fair for someone barely getting by on necessities to pay 10% on income tax compared to a person making 1000 times more?
How is it fair for someone to get money from a government they have not paid into?
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,284,077 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
What's not fair about a flat tax? Everyone pays the same tax rate. Very low income; very low tax bill. Very high income; very high tax bill. There would be some paying many, many times more than others for the same government benefits and services.
From Robert Reich:

Quote:
The flat tax is a fraud. It raises taxes on the poor and lowers them on the rich.
...
The details of flat-tax proposals vary, of course. But all of them end up benefitting the rich more than the poor for one simple reason: Today's tax code is still at least moderately progressive. The rich usually pay a higher percent of their incomes in income taxes than do the poor. A flat tax would eliminate that slight progressivity.

Nowadays most low-income households pay no federal income tax at all -- a fact that sends many regressives into spasms of indignation. They conveniently ignore the fact that poor households pay a much larger share of their incomes in payroll taxes, sales taxes, and property taxes (directly, if they own their homes; indirectly, if they rent) than do people with high incomes.
...
The truth is the current tax code treats everyone the same. It's organized around tax brackets. Everyone whose income reaches the same bracket is treated the same as everyone else whose income reaches that bracket (apart from various deductions, exemptions, and credits, of course).

For example, no one pays any income taxes on the first $20,000 or so of their income (the exact amount depends on whether the person is married and eligible for tax credits like the Earned Income Tax Credit of the Family Tax Credit.)

People in higher brackets pay a higher rate only on the portion of their income that hits that bracket -- not on their entire incomes.

So when Barack Obama calls for ending the Bush tax cut on incomes over $250,000, he's only talking about the portion peoples' incomes that exceed $250,000. He's not proposing to tax their entire incomes at the higher rate that prevailed under Bill Clinton.

Republicans have tried to sow confusion about this. They want Americans to believe, for example, that if the Bush tax cut ended, small business owners with incomes of $251,000 a year would suddenly have to pay 39 percent of their entire incomes in taxes rather than 35 percent. Wrong. They'd only have to pay the 39 percent rate on $1,000 -- the portion of their incomes over $250,000.

Get it? We already have a flat tax -- flat within each bracket.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:16 PM
 
9,856 posts, read 14,660,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
"We already have a flat tax -- flat within each bracket."

Which is another way of saying that we don't have a flat tax!
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,719 posts, read 29,287,014 times
Reputation: 9259
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
The surgeon still gets paid if the patient dies.
Nothing wrong with that is there? Surgeons don't save everyone because it isn't possible.
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