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Old 12-22-2011, 01:54 PM
 
29,407 posts, read 21,996,065 times
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I wonder what all you left handers who hate coal and oil and evil rich folks are gonna do when you get your wish? All that "cheap" energy gone and now the po folks won't be able to afford your solar panel and wind turbine energy. I guess they'll just freeze in the winter and cook in the summer?? If it's in the quest to save the planet I don't think many would really mind. That is how insane some have become.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,806,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
I wonder what all you left handers who hate coal and oil and evil rich folks are gonna do when you get your wish? All that "cheap" energy gone and now the po folks won't be able to afford your solar panel and wind turbine energy. I guess they'll just freeze in the winter and cook in the summer?? If it's in the quest to save the planet I don't think many would really mind. That is how insane some have become.
Well, considering the worship of the rich that goes on by the right wingers, I would hate to learn that the rich won't step up to help those po people who spend their entire lives worshipping them.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
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Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
EG, I am confused by your comment about "cheap energy."
There's nothing to be confused about, if you realize there's no way to sustain "cheap energy". So, we ought to stop making excuses.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Well, considering the worship of the rich that goes on by the right wingers, I would hate to learn that the rich won't step up to help those po people who spend their entire lives worshipping them.
Why would they. The evil rich hate all the poor havn't you heard? Maybe you have no problem if your power bill skyrockets while folks like solyndra laugh their way to the bank but some do.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,414,093 times
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Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
You're saying the rise in asthma among children is a lie?
There is some serious research which indicates that the rise in asthma and other auto-immune problems are associated with both antibiotics AND cleaner air. The body does not develop enough antibodies at an early age to deal with it naturally.

I don't advocate polluting and we need to act responsible towards the environment, but we need to be honest and transparent about the process.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:18 PM
 
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So cleaner air causes asthma? Talk about unintended consequences.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,152,432 times
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Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
You're saying the rise in asthma among children is a lie?
I can speak to that.

Asthma is increasing, and in fact the US has the highest rate in the world, but not for the reasons you think.

I've mentioned this before, but about 6 years ago the UN did a study on child asthma in the world's most polluted cities, and then used US cities as comparison data (a sort of control group because US cities have better air quality).

The results of the study were exactly opposite of what was predicted/hypothesized. Children in the dirtiest most polluted cities had lower rates of asthma than children in US cities.

What is so different between a child living in Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Miami, Seattle or Boston and a child living in Kiev (Ukraine), Mumbai (Bombay, India), Shanghai (China) or elsewhere?

Two things.

Children living in US cities are born and raised on wall-to-wall carpeting. Children outside of the US typically have no carpeting at all.

Even when there is carpeting, the carpeting is made of animal hair or natural plant fibers (like flaxen, linen, cotton etc).

US synthetic carpet fibers are made from oil (usually heavy or low end intermediate grade oil like West Texas Sour, East Texas Sour, California Heavy, Alaskan North Slope etc).

The other thing is central air/heat. US children are born and raised in a cocooned environment. It is common practice in other countries to open the windows every single day, even in Winter when the temperature is 12°F, for 1-2 hours. Americans do not do that. In Germany, the heating system is in the floor (hot water heats the tiles, the tiles retain heat) so carpeting is stupid, but every day you open the windows and throw the bed linen out to air. Same in Romania (except we use a terra cotta instead of having heat in the floor).

It's been theorized that children need to be exposed to airborne particulate matter in order to develop "immunity" to asthma much in the same way that children exposed to other children in school helps develop their immunity to viral diseases.

That would be the great irony: your central heat/air systems with their fancy HEPA filters actually cause asthma, not prevent it.

Anyway, this study conducted by WHO was squelched and pulled from the UN web-site within a year of being published. I guess the US figured it would be harmful or damaging to the US carpet industry and the HVAC industry.

So I wouldn't dispute that US children have greater asthma rates, but I would dispute why they do, and outdoor air quality is not the issue. Having your child have their face buried in oil all the live-long day is probably not a good idea, even more so given the amount of oil you feed your child every day.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:22 PM
 
4,255 posts, read 3,478,526 times
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Originally Posted by justus978 View Post
...i live totally off the grid...solar power so i have no direct skin in this agrument - other than everything will go up in price...
...to your point though, i honestly do not remember anyone, in my gradeschool days, 50's -60's being allergic to peanut's...now the school is full of them...while i dont dispute the asthma claim, i do wonder if air quality has much to do with it..

Actualy they have found a link with children who were given soy milk as babies and peanut allergies. Ill take a look a little later and see if I can find it.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ambient View Post
I do not; my laptop is powered via hamster on a wheel.

Ever figure out why it took so long to get the big one to say " row, row"?
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,806,382 times
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Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
Why would they. The evil rich hate all the poor havn't you heard? Maybe you have no problem if your power bill skyrockets while folks like solyndra laugh their way to the bank but some do.
They should hate the left wingers. They should be in love with the right wingers. But, it sounds like you've been dealt with disappointment. Trust me, it doesn't come to me as a surprise.
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