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Old 12-26-2011, 08:51 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,353 posts, read 51,942,966 times
Reputation: 23746

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Has it occurred to you that the reason it "always seems to be the pit bulls" is because the news picks them out?
Bingo! Guess we could assume only white kids get kidnapped, since they're the ones who typically make national news... of course plenty of non-white kids are abducted (or go missing) every year, but somehow those stories are "less marketable" to their general audience.

 
Old 12-26-2011, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,972,661 times
Reputation: 8912
Quote:
Originally Posted by plannine View Post


What the city needs to do is set up standards for the testing and licensing of service dogs.
I think what the city should do is not outlaw an entire breed of dogs because of some bad owners.

If that were done to people, they'd be racists.

A dog should not be seen as guilty unless he shows that he is dangerous. Simply being born should not be a guilty offense.

I remember when German Shepherds were going to be banned, years back - and then there was talk about banning Dobermans in some circles. These dogs are no longer thought of as dangerous.

Now, it is Pit Bulls that are the favorites of some low types, so they are the dog that people would ban.

Some dogs are tested to have the mentality of a five year old. This is like banning someone's child, for heaven's sake!
 
Old 12-26-2011, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,253 posts, read 23,733,496 times
Reputation: 38634
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
As I mentioned above, my dog also has some issues with dog aggression - and he's a 40lb mutt, most likely Cattle Dog or Kelpie mixed with some Northern breed/s and a drop of Poodle. No Pit whatsoever, and I know that from a DNA test done as a puppy. They actually eliminated all breeds except Poodle, LOL... but at that time they didn't test for the most likely ones (ACD & Kelpie).

He hasn't ever really hurt another dog, and is ALWAYS friendly with humans, but he does get aggressive around certain breeds and puppies... so I hired a private trainer for $100/session, and worked with him extensively on handling the behavior. He still has to be firmly controlled around larger dogs (he loves small dogs), but he's MUCH better thanks to the training! Now it usually just takes a sharp command of "leave it," and he'll turn and practice avoidance with the dog he doesn't like. Took some time and a good deal of money, but it would take an act of Congress to convince me to kill my dog. He's a family member, and we'd all do whatever it took to save our family. Right?

Granted, I can't say what I'd do if he violently attacked a human - particularly a child. So I try not to judge what people do in those situations, but I'd probably still attempt training before agreeing to euthanize.
It's worth it, isn't it? And no, it is NOT cheap!

As for the guy who was attacked protecting his dog...that's why he was attacked. He got in the middle of a dog fight. I KNOW the first inclination is to get right in there but there are ways to break up a dog fight where you don't have your hands or face anywhere NEAR the "offending" dog. You work from the back end.

As for that other person, (InsaneTraveler), ok, they were young at the time, a kid, so no, it was not their responsibility to train that dog...you can't expect a 7 year old to know what to do but the adults in that house did have the responsibility. And if you KNOW your dog will attack another dog, it is most definitely your responsibility to keep your dog in control at all times and MOST of that comes from training!

Same thing goes with my dog...he gets along with his sister and he loves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! people. He is learning that he doesn't get to make the decisions. The best thing for me is that I have a neighbor who has a Golden Retriever on the other side of the fence and when my dogs are out, playing in our yard, and the owner of that Golden lets his dog out, that Golden FLIES over to the fence, snarling and growling and ready to tear something apart. This has been the best in teaching my boy to "LEAVE IT!" When he does and not only leaves it but completely finds something else to do, or comes to me, man does he get a fat reward for it. But I can also do this when we are on walks...if that other dog is leashed or fenced in.

Another thing that people don't think about...it happens too often here, is that we can go on walks and so many people do not have their dog leashed or fenced in or otherwise controlled AND the owners are INSIDE the house while their dog roams the property. We walk by, their dog comes flying over to us...well, guess what..with a dog aggressive dog, that doesn't go over well.

My dog is on leash at all times when we are walking on the sidewalk and I do put him behind me and "threaten" the other dog and my dog allows me a chance to control the situation but if that dog gets too close, we have problems.

If someone's dog gets out that is dog aggressive, (and it's not a "one breed" thing), and is met by one of these uncontrolled dogs, even IF that dog were coming up to "play", the dog aggressive dog will probably attack. Throw in a person trying to break up the fight, you have a bite coming soon.

The fact of the matter is, there are not hoards of homeless pit bulls wandering the streets. The fact is, these dogs are owned by people who are being irresponsible in a) not having control of their dogs at all times, (even if they are in the yard, you better make damn sure that dog cannot get out and that no child can stuff their fingers in to the fence to F with the dog), b) not training their dogs the right way.

It is not the dog breed. It IS the people.

Anyway, this police officer should get his dog back because:

Service dogs are trained

This goes against the ADA and that cop will win.
 
Old 12-26-2011, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,972,661 times
Reputation: 8912
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneTraveler View Post
The pitbull was bred to be a violent dog. Miniature Poodles can also be vicious, but a poodle doesn't have the capability of ripping apart a cat, let alone a human. Pitbulls do have the potential of ripping apart a human, and that has been shown on numerous occasions. The potential is why the dog needs to be regulated. The people of this Iowan town have spoken and this man needs to obey the laws they have set forth.
There was a story a breeder told me of Dobermans. She said there were two areas that they were bred in; the Mideast(I think), where they were bred as patrol dogs where they would kill the ones that were too docile, and in Europe they bred them as family dogs and for training in things like circuses where they would sacrifice the vicious ones.

I don't know if that is true, but it could be the reason why some Dobermans got such a bad rep and others were like pussycats.

Maybe something of the sort has happened to Bulls?

I would always give a dog a chance.

I also usually get pets from breeders where I know that several generations of being with people who probably care for them a great deal have increased the odds of having a people friendly pet.

That said, some of the smartest and most grateful animals that I have ever seen have come from shelters and you can often avoid animals that show immediately that they are hyper or overly shy.

In my book it is a sin to tarnish an entire breed as is done here.
 
Old 12-26-2011, 09:44 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,353 posts, read 51,942,966 times
Reputation: 23746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
It's worth it, isn't it? And no, it is NOT cheap!
Yes it was worth it, and no it was not cheap! Unfortunately the latter is why I had to limit our sessions, as I couldn't afford hundreds of dollars a month... but with just a few hours of one-on-one training, both the dog & I learned a lot of great techniques for avoiding aggression. He couldn't even eat a treat near my (ex) roommate's Lab at first, and by the second session they were munching calmly just inches from each other.

Quote:
As for the guy who was attacked protecting his dog...that's why he was attacked. He got in the middle of a dog fight. I KNOW the first inclination is to get right in there but there are ways to break up a dog fight where you don't have your hands or face anywhere NEAR the "offending" dog. You work from the back end.
Exactly... sounds like the dog wasn't human aggressive, just dog aggressive, but unfortunately a human stepped in their way. One time I didn't heed that advice (working from the back) as Rudy was getting into a scuffle, and I ended up with a tooth on my hand - no actual bite, simply my hand getting in the way of their flying teeth. Still don't know which dog did it, but that's irrelevant because it was MY fault for sticking my hand in there. I wasn't hurt or anything, but it did remind me to think before acting next time.

Quote:
As for that other person, (InsaneTraveler), ok, they were young at the time, a kid, so no, it was not their responsibility to train that dog...you can't expect a 7 year old to know what to do but the adults in that house did have the responsibility. And if you KNOW your dog will attack another dog, it is most definitely your responsibility to keep your dog in control at all times and MOST of that comes from training!
Yes again. I take my dog to the dog parks sometimes, but only the ones with "small dog sections" because of his issue with larger breeds. He plays beautifully with the little pooches, and luckily is (just barely) light enough to be allowed in that section. Aside from the dog park he's always leashed outside, especially since we currently live in an apartment... so if you know your dog has aggression issues, it should never have the opportunity to run freely at another dog or human.
 
Old 12-26-2011, 09:45 PM
 
1,604 posts, read 1,565,508 times
Reputation: 941
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessme2 View Post
I applaud the town for making this move. The safety of humans come first. I wish more towns across America would do this. Imagine sitting on a city bus with someone with a pit bull as a "service animal". I don't care how well trained the dog is, the Pit Bull's predisposition to violence renders it a real risk to public safety due to its inborn aggressive traits.
 
Old 12-26-2011, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,972,661 times
Reputation: 8912
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
I think any breed of dog that bites or mauls someone will make the news. I don't think the news is prejudice against pit bulls. Yet it seems to always be pit bulls that are violent and why is that.
I am an old person and have seen the same garbage directed against German Shepherds and Dobermans over the years. People were saying the same thing that you are against these breeds.

The other poster is correct, the news knows the issue is only controversial about Pit Bulls right now, so that is all we're hearing about.

Believe me, with a little time this will die down, as well.
 
Old 12-26-2011, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,972,661 times
Reputation: 8912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
It's worth it, isn't it? And no, it is NOT cheap!

As for the guy who was attacked protecting his dog...that's why he was attacked. He got in the middle of a dog fight. I KNOW the first inclination is to get right in there but there are ways to break up a dog fight where you don't have your hands or face anywhere NEAR the "offending" dog. You work from the back end.

As for that other person, (InsaneTraveler), ok, they were young at the time, a kid, so no, it was not their responsibility to train that dog...you can't expect a 7 year old to know what to do but the adults in that house did have the responsibility. And if you KNOW your dog will attack another dog, it is most definitely your responsibility to keep your dog in control at all times and MOST of that comes from training!

Same thing goes with my dog...he gets along with his sister and he loves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! people. He is learning that he doesn't get to make the decisions. The best thing for me is that I have a neighbor who has a Golden Retriever on the other side of the fence and when my dogs are out, playing in our yard, and the owner of that Golden lets his dog out, that Golden FLIES over to the fence, snarling and growling and ready to tear something apart. This has been the best in teaching my boy to "LEAVE IT!" When he does and not only leaves it but completely finds something else to do, or comes to me, man does he get a fat reward for it. But I can also do this when we are on walks...if that other dog is leashed or fenced in.

Another thing that people don't think about...it happens too often here, is that we can go on walks and so many people do not have their dog leashed or fenced in or otherwise controlled AND the owners are INSIDE the house while their dog roams the property. We walk by, their dog comes flying over to us...well, guess what..with a dog aggressive dog, that doesn't go over well.

My dog is on leash at all times when we are walking on the sidewalk and I do put him behind me and "threaten" the other dog and my dog allows me a chance to control the situation but if that dog gets too close, we have problems.

If someone's dog gets out that is dog aggressive, (and it's not a "one breed" thing), and is met by one of these uncontrolled dogs, even IF that dog were coming up to "play", the dog aggressive dog will probably attack. Throw in a person trying to break up the fight, you have a bite coming soon.

The fact of the matter is, there are not hoards of homeless pit bulls wandering the streets. The fact is, these dogs are owned by people who are being irresponsible in a) not having control of their dogs at all times, (even if they are in the yard, you better make damn sure that dog cannot get out and that no child can stuff their fingers in to the fence to F with the dog), b) not training their dogs the right way.

It is not the dog breed. It IS the people.

Anyway, this police officer should get his dog back because:

Service dogs are trained

This goes against the ADA and that cop will win.
I have heard of some postal workers carrying pepper spray with them because they offer such a (fun)target for dogs. If you have not thought of it, that might be helpful to carry while walking your dog. Please pardon me if I am stating the bloody obvious.
 
Old 12-26-2011, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Northern California
970 posts, read 2,213,291 times
Reputation: 1401
The city is going to lose this case. A national law trumps a local ordinance.

I am not a pit bull fan but it's entirely possible that the reason a pit bull is being used instead of another breed has to do with physical size and strength. If the man has serious mobility issues he may need a strong dog to support his body when moving from one place to another (like from a wheelchair to a bed).
 
Old 12-26-2011, 11:10 PM
 
Location: California
37,135 posts, read 42,214,810 times
Reputation: 35013
After reading about this "certification" I'm inclinded to have less sympathy than I did when I first saw the OP. There is a storm brewing with these "service dogs/cats/hamsters/goldfish" that needs to be addressed and nipped in the bud SOON. We are going to hear more about this as time goes on.
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