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For about the 1oth time. Read the previous verses which you seem to conveniently forget. The context comes BEFORE the verses you keep mindlessly parroting.
21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
This is a clear reference by Paul to people who had turned away from his god and reverted back to worshipping their pagan gods. And we know that in the first century Rome and Corinth (where Paul wrote that letter to the Romans) they used ritual sex practices in the pagan temples to worship their fertility gods and goddesses. This has ZERO to do with homosexuality or gay people in the 21st century.
Context is everything....
Yes, worshipping false gods is a sin. What you are trying to say is that gay sex is sinful only if you do is while worshipping false gods, which is complete nonsense. This is why I listed all the sins Paul talks about in the same chapter. Again, THEY ARE ALL SINS ALL THE TIME. Gay sex is a sin at all times, just like lying, be it a part of a satanic ritual or not. If you do it while worshipping satan, then you are committing two sins: satan worship and gay sex.
Gay sex is descibed in the follwing ways in this chapter:
- sinful desires of their hearts (yes, not the word 'sinful')
- sexual impurity
- degrading of the bodies
- shameful acts with other men
- exchanging natural sexual relations for unnatural ones
All of the above refer to the GAY SEX, not to satan worship.
And then he goes on to talk about other sins which were being committed:
- evil
- greed
- depravity
- envy
- murder - strife
- deceit
- malice
- gossip
- slander
- God hating
- arrogance
- boastfulness
- creating new ways of doing evil
- disobeying parents
- infidelity - unlovingness
- unmercifulness - approving sin of others
i've been gay my whole life. and it's NOT a choice, and obviously since I was born gay God did intend for me to be so, or else i wouldn't be here typing this.
The folks you're trying to adopt reason can logically disagree with your premise only if they found themselves at a crossroads at some point in time and made the choice to be straight. People like you and I never dealt with this issue that they clearly did. In other words, they dealt with an abnormal situation. Unless they are relying entirely on a belief, on emotions and subscribing to the irrational behavior they exhibit.
I voted vor "yes", as for me it is normal and natural. Some may have brown eyes, others blue eyes. Some are left-handed, some are right-handed. Some are red haired, some are blonde. Some are heterosexual, others homosexual, so what?
Personally I have no good feeling when I see two guys kissing each other or imagine even more then that, but this is MY problem, as I have no right to judge about them and their natural freedom to kiss whoever they like to kiss. Only because I could NEVER imagine having a sexual affaire with a male, it does not mean that there aren't people who do and who like it. I wish everybody to be happy with the partner he wishes for himself, regardless what other people say.
the other religious thinker never returned to the thread to answer if he could debate the question without all the religious "thinking". I am wondering if any other poster who uses religious teaching as reason to think homosexuality is wrong could debate the issue on other merits?
Yes, worshipping false gods is a sin. What you are trying to say is that gay sex is sinful only if you do is while worshipping false gods, which is complete nonsense. This is why I listed all the sins Paul talks about in the same chapter. Again, THEY ARE ALL SINS ALL THE TIME. Gay sex is a sin at all times, just like lying, be it a part of a satanic ritual or not. If you do it while worshipping satan, then you are committing two sins: satan worship and gay sex.
Gay sex is descibed in the follwing ways in this chapter:
- sinful desires of their hearts (yes, not the word 'sinful')
- sexual impurity
- degrading of the bodies
- shameful acts with other men
- exchanging natural sexual relations for unnatural ones
All of the above refer to the GAY SEX, not to satan worship.
And then he goes on to talk about other sins which were being committed:
- evil
- greed
- depravity
- envy
- murder - strife
- deceit
- malice
- gossip
- slander
- God hating
- arrogance
- boastfulness
- creating new ways of doing evil
- disobeying parents
- infidelity - unlovingness
- unmercifulness - approving sin of others
1) Gay sex is not unnatural. The words used in the Bible for sexual immorality don't necessarily specify homosexuality. They have just been debatably translated as such.
2) What about all the self-proclaimed Christians who secretly go to see pole dancers and cheat on their spouses and--have gay sex a la Ted Haggard?
3) Why are we so focused on gay people, most of whom aren't even Christian, when there are people everywhere who are engaging in the above-listed sins, but who additionally claim to be Christian and spiritually upright?
the other religious thinker never returned to the thread to answer if he could debate the question without all the religious "thinking". I am wondering if any other poster who uses religious teaching as reason to think homosexuality is wrong could debate the issue on other merits?
I am sure they will pushing for a law to promote that view in schools soon unless they are stopped.
What would be different between then and now? A majority mob holds the greater power to abuse than a minority. Are you suggesting that homosexuality makes up the majority, or will if kids are told to treat gays as normal people?
I am sure they will pushing for a law to promote that view in schools soon unless they are stopped.
Teaching tolerance isn't pushing a view. For example, I have taught the kids I babysit the basic tenets of different religions. But I didn't try to convert them to any of those religions. It was just for general common knowledge. Telling kids that gay people exist is not the same as trying to "recruit" them into homosexuality.
My question is, why are people so insecure and paranoid that even if homosexuality gets mentioned, they automatically assume gays are out to convert the world? Do people freak out equivalently every time someone mentions a menorah? Oh my God don't say that word in front of our children--you're pushing the Jewish agenda on them!
Is listening to Stevie Wonder trying to force people to be black and blind? Because apparently reading poetry and literature by gay authors, while also mentioning that they are/were gay, is paramount to "indoctrination", so I'm guessing next time Stevie pops up on the radio while you're in Walmart you'll have to worry about if they're going to turn black and go blind!
Maybe that analogy will make you realize how ridiculous it is to think that just mentioning homosexuality or mentioning that a poet or author isn't enough to convince them that homosexuality is okay and definitely won't make them gay either. After all, if it worked like that I would have been straight by now cause I've had heterosexuality shoved down my throat my whole life, as have many gay people whose friends and families try to get them to act straight and be straight.
Even electroshock therapy isn't enough to make a gay person straight, so what makes you think mentioning gay people exist is enough to make a straight person gay?
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