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You make some intersting points. I don't necessarily agree with them, but they're worth talking about.
If you think back to the 2008 Presidential campaign, the choices were Obama-Biden or McCain-Palin. We both know that it's true that there is a significant part of the black America that voted for Obama because he is black. However, you must also acknowledge that there is also a significant part of black and white America that voted for Obama because the alternative was McCain-Palin, and having that team in the White House was just too damn scary for a whole lot of people, black and white. Think back on the shape that the economy was in at that time. Things were going downhill and people were desperate and afraid of what might happen next. You may also recall that Obama gave a number of great, inspirational speeches that set him apart from what we have witnessed in the last few Presidential elections.
Electing a new President is a lot like hiring a new employee. They may look good on paper and may interview very well, but you don't really know how well or poorly they will do until you actually hire them and put them on the job.
O.J. Simpson...you may or may not be surprised to hear that but when you are on trial, it's not about whether or not you committed the crime. It's about whether or not the prosecution can convince 12 people that you did it, and whether the defense can raise reasonable doubt with one of the 12. The defense failed to put up a rock solid case. I have heard that from people of all races about the trial, not just black people. I was not convinced that he did the killings. I do, believe, however, that he was at the scene of the murders. Just my thought.
Anyway, yes, there were a lot of black people who voted for Obama simply because he was black. If he had campaigned putting out some really far-out ideas about how the thought the country should be run, I believe that a whole lot fewer black people would have supported him.
Finally, there is a point that you and, I daresay, nearly all white people may never understand.
What it has meant to be black in America.
If you take a look back at the history of the treatment of black people in this country, there's been a lot of things done wrong. I'm not sure how to convey this, so I must resort to the best example I can come up with...my personal view point and experience. I think a lot of black people will undestand what I mean. I hope that white people will, too.
My great-great grandparents were Texas slaves. My great-grandfather was a Texas sharecropper who eventually owned his own farm before he died. My grandfather was a janitor and always worked at least two jobs until he retired, going back to the years before I was born. My father retired as a high school principal. I am an IT Manager for a financial institution, and I make pretty good money. The common thread is that we all experienced racism from whites in various forms, to varying degrees. By the time I came along, a lot had changed compared to my great-great grandparents' time. By the same token, a lot had not changed in terms of how some whites treated blacks.
Here's my point: My story is not unique. Other black people can tell a similar, even more amazing and successful story. In spite of this generational progression, we (black people), as the rule rather than the exception, have been treated as second-class citizens by white society (yes I'm generalizing, but in America, white people have always run the political, economic, educational, and social institutions). So now, along comes Barack Obama, a black man, running for president. Here's where I may lose some of you, but hang in there. When you consider the history of the treatment, institutional and individual racism endured by black people, can you imagine what it feels like to actually see a black man with a legitimate shot at being the President of the United States?! And he won the election!
To my fellow white posters in this thread, I only wish you could know what that's like. Maybe you have some parallel experience you can relate to, I don't know. I believe my fellow black posters understand what I am talking about. For most black people, this was an unbelievable event. It's easy for me to see why people can say it's racist, or foolish to vote for a black person just because he's black. Maybe you can understand this, or maybe you can't, but this was not just a case of race-based voting. This was decades and generations of pain, suffering, hope, hopelessness, sacrifice, fear, anger, denial of opportunity, mistreatment, and a lot of other things coming to the surface. We finally had a release mechanism. We would finally get a shot at the political Grand Prize. A shot that we had been systematically excluded from since the birth of this country. That hope manifested itself in the form of a vote for a black man who would become President.
Given that perspective, you may have a better understanding of why so many black people voted for Barack Obama. I'm not a particularly sentimental or emotional person, but I cried during his Inauguration. I never thought I would see a black man in the White House in my lifetime. Unbelievable doesn't begin to describe it. The 2008 election wasn't just another Presidential election. For black people, it was the realization of what was thought to be utterly impossible.
I hear everything you are saying and I certainly agree. Many people have ask me why is it such a big deal that a black man was voted into the presidency. Unless you are black you would never understand. My dad who is 85 years of age, served in WWII and Korea, cried like a baby election night. The only time I have ever seen my dad cry was at his brothers funeral. He never thought it would ever happen in his lifetime based on the things he had experienced in his life. As a side note I watched both political conventions that year and was amazed at the difference between the crowds. The democratic convention was made up of people of all races. It clearly reflected the diversity that our country truly has become. The republican convention was the polar opposite. It was made up of 95% white people with just specks of other races. The stark contrast was amazing. The question that came to mind was are those folks really smarter than everyone else or are they simply holding on the past. In my personal opinion the GOP is dying a slow death. They will have to expand there base to stay viable. Half my republican friends agree with this and the other half say they will go down with the ship before they change. Like I stated earlier they will have to win over the hispanic vote if they want to win future elections. It's going to be interesting to see how this thing shakes out.
You make some intersting points. I don't necessarily agree with them, but they're worth talking about.
If you think back to the 2008 Presidential campaign, the choices were Obama-Biden or McCain-Palin. We both know that it's true that there is a significant part of the black America that voted for Obama because he is black. However, you must also acknowledge that there is also a significant part of black and white America that voted for Obama because the alternative was McCain-Palin, and having that team in the White House was just too damn scary for a whole lot of people, black and white. Think back on the shape that the economy was in at that time. Things were going downhill and people were desperate and afraid of what might happen next. You may also recall that Obama gave a number of great, inspirational speeches that set him apart from what we have witnessed in the last few Presidential elections.
Electing a new President is a lot like hiring a new employee. They may look good on paper and may interview very well, but you don't really know how well or poorly they will do until you actually hire them and put them on the job.
O.J. Simpson...you may or may not be surprised to hear that but when you are on trial, it's not about whether or not you committed the crime. It's about whether or not the prosecution can convince 12 people that you did it, and whether the defense can raise reasonable doubt with one of the 12. The defense failed to put up a rock solid case. I have heard that from people of all races about the trial, not just black people. I was not convinced that he did the killings. I do, believe, however, that he was at the scene of the murders. Just my thought.
Anyway, yes, there were a lot of black people who voted for Obama simply because he was black. If he had campaigned putting out some really far-out ideas about how the thought the country should be run, I believe that a whole lot fewer black people would have supported him.
Finally, there is a point that you and, I daresay, nearly all white people may never understand.
What it has meant to be black in America.
If you take a look back at the history of the treatment of black people in this country, there's been a lot of things done wrong. I'm not sure how to convey this, so I must resort to the best example I can come up with...my personal view point and experience. I think a lot of black people will undestand what I mean. I hope that white people will, too.
My great-great grandparents were Texas slaves. My great-grandfather was a Texas sharecropper who eventually owned his own farm before he died. My grandfather was a janitor and always worked at least two jobs until he retired, going back to the years before I was born. My father retired as a high school principal. I am an IT Manager for a financial institution, and I make pretty good money. The common thread is that we all experienced racism from whites in various forms, to varying degrees. By the time I came along, a lot had changed compared to my great-great grandparents' time. By the same token, a lot had not changed in terms of how some whites treated blacks.
Here's my point: My story is not unique. Other black people can tell a similar, even more amazing and successful story. In spite of this generational progression, we (black people), as the rule rather than the exception, have been treated as second-class citizens by white society (yes I'm generalizing, but in America, white people have always run the political, economic, educational, and social institutions). So now, along comes Barack Obama, a black man, running for president. Here's where I may lose some of you, but hang in there. When you consider the history of the treatment, institutional and individual racism endured by black people, can you imagine what it feels like to actually see a black man with a legitimate shot at being the President of the United States?! And he won the election!
To my fellow white posters in this thread, I only wish you could know what that's like. Maybe you have some parallel experience you can relate to, I don't know. I believe my fellow black posters understand what I am talking about. For most black people, this was an unbelievable event. It's easy for me to see why people can say it's racist, or foolish to vote for a black person just because he's black. Maybe you can understand this, or maybe you can't, but this was not just a case of race-based voting. This was decades and generations of pain, suffering, hope, hopelessness, sacrifice, fear, anger, denial of opportunity, mistreatment, and a lot of other things coming to the surface. We finally had a release mechanism. We would finally get a shot at the political Grand Prize. A shot that we had been systematically excluded from since the birth of this country. That hope manifested itself in the form of a vote for a black man who would become President.
Given that perspective, you may have a better understanding of why so many black people voted for Barack Obama. I'm not a particularly sentimental or emotional person, but I cried during his Inauguration. I never thought I would see a black man in the White House in my lifetime. Unbelievable doesn't begin to describe it. The 2008 election wasn't just another Presidential election. For black people, it was the realization of what was thought to be utterly impossible.
That sir is an excellent read from an excellent writer with a well thought out perspective of why black people voted 90% for Obama, which explains as well as it can be explained why Charlie ?, sorry I can't remember his name, (the black, rather hefty, black financial analyst on FOX business analysis), voted for Obama. When I heard (Charles ?) say he voted for Obama, I knew then it was not about political conclusions it was about
racial favoritism.
Damn well spoken Sir...SALUTE!
Now that you know Obama is not a success, are you willing to continue to allow him to lead you down a path that if allowed to continue may well neutralize the sacrifices of the evolution of your family in favor of a playing field so stacked that your labors will become equally divided with those that have not chosen to make the same personal sacrifices.
If you say yes and trust me I not only believe, I respect ,your personal reasons and representations, if you are willing to carry forward with the execution of a substantially Marxist platform, then you are willing to sacrifice the considerable efforts of the successes of your ancestry for a symbolism that is capable of destroying the very essence of the sacrifice.
Sorry to sound so harsh but I don't share in the investment of your black experience I am purely an analyst and in describing yourself you have described someone I know very well as an individual and someone I greatly admire, hell you could be him ,"D" is that u?
Thanks for taking time to write that it was heart warming and sincere.
I hear everything you are saying and I certainly agree. Many people have ask me why is it such a big deal that a black man was voted into the presidency. Unless you are black you would never understand. My dad who is 85 years of age, served in WWII and Korea, cried like a baby election night. The only time I have ever seen my dad cry was at his brothers funeral. He never thought it would ever happen in his lifetime based on the things he had experienced in his life. As a side note I watched both political conventions that year and was amazed at the difference between the crowds. The democratic convention was made up of people of all races. It clearly reflected the diversity that our country truly has become. The republican convention was the polar opposite. It was made up of 95% white people with just specks of other races. The stark contrast was amazing. The question that came to mind was are those folks really smarter than everyone else or are they simply holding on the past. In my personal opinion the GOP is dying a slow death. They will have to expand there base to stay viable. Half my republican friends agree with this and the other half say they will go down with the ship before they change. Like I stated earlier they will have to win over the hispanic vote if they want to win future elections. It's going to be interesting to see how this thing shakes out.
I am an Independent and voted the last time for a Democrat for Carter, In the words of Churchill, "If you are under 40 and not a liberal you don't have a heart and if you are over forty and not a conservative you don't have a brain" Flippant or not there is great wisdom in that quote and now saying. Expanding the base doesn
t have so much to do with ethnicity as it does philosophy and conservatives will never surrender the philosophy. Liberalism can sound good if sung by the right singer but once applied the ugly truth of the philosophy is easily dissected.
If you believe the strength of a society is based upon the concept that the strength of the whole strengthens each individual within the confines of that whole you are believing in false dictate. THE STRENGTH OF EACH INDIVIDUAL WITHIN THE WHOLE STRENGTHENES THE WHOLE . Within the confines of political discourse they can ONLY be mutually exclusive. To try for one at the expense of the other is to try to stick togeather two magnets of polar opposites. It can only be one or the other. This is the secret of all our successes and failures. You must choose.
When you say I vote for the man or woman, not the party, you had best understand which of these two polar opposites the man represents. Else you are voting for personality or hair or maybe color of skin. When reduced to this lowest common denominator it is a very simple choice for me. Each of you choose and choose wisely as if your life and or quality of life depends on it.
As long as Republicans defend White Pride/Power types, they will never see Blacks running to join them.
Black people voting for Democrats has nothing to do with Republicans or how they act, feel, treat black people. Black people vote for Democrats because Democrats have made it a goal to see who can pander to black people the most for decades now. Of course liberal morons will use racism as an excuse but that's nothing new.
Its not about "you must switch to the republican party".
Its about "don't shame someone into not even giving another political party a fair look".
Take a fair look at the Dems, GOP, Greens, Libertarian, Constitution, Reform and all of the other parties. Then pick one based on that fair look.
It is impossible for me to believe that only ONE party has what 95% of what one whole ethnic group of 35,000,000 wants in political leadership. That doesn't make any sense.
Simple as that.
When you limit what you see you might as well be blind.
And I'll go right ahead and reject this argument that black people are unable to exercise their choice in the vote booth because of some sort of massive beatdown that they'll receive from other black people, who have no real way of knowing their party or voting record.
I have a friend that grew up in a small town in Pennsylvania, is an avid Catholic, and likes to take his gun to the range for skeet-shooting. it's been almost four years since Obama's "bitter" remark, and the guy *still* remembers it, and holds it against the president. And I really can't blame him.
So why am I supposed to overlook decades of "democrat plantation slave", "You just want welfare/foodstamps", "You're a criminal" and similar obviously demeaning rhetoric that rely on century-old stereotypes, always delivered to *white* audiences? This is basically all the GOP has had to say about black voters for decades, and it's lead to them being rejected by black people en masse, for more than a generation. Sorry, when you're a politician, it's your job to shape your rhetoric to attract voters. When I hear that garbage, all I hear is "I don't want black people to vote for me". And at that point, your "fair look" is over. I don't care if they're bigots, if they're *pandering* to bigots, or if they're just totally unaware of how obviously racist they sound. I don't want them in office regardless.
I'm not a black person so this is just my understanding/opinion. I think the black family is still the leader of the black people, even though so many are single and financially hurting. But I still think that most black people respect the family and would vote that way-even though they cannot see it for themselves. I think they still hope it for their children.
I was raised Catholic but rarely go to Church adn rarely sacrifice meat on friday during lent ect. But I hope my children are better Catholics than me. I guess that's what I'm thinking anyway.
funny. i'm gay and i still respect the family. didn't think an unchosen birth trait had much to do with morality or lack of respect for family, considering i come from one.
funny. i'm gay and i still respect the family. didn't think an unchosen birth trait had much to do with morality or lack of respect for family, considering i come from one.
A different conversation and I have observations of both but I think each person that makes this statement is conflicted between "birth trait" and "hedonism".
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