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Old 08-31-2007, 08:56 PM
 
62 posts, read 263,617 times
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I read a few important findings from the tragic accident in Virginia Tech.
One aspect I'd like to mention is the aspect of harsh and cruel treatment which the shooter had to endure during his high school days.
We all know that there is a huge spectrum of people in terms of social need from extreme extrovert to extreme introvert.
The problem is that there is a unfair bias against an introvert in society which is often used to justify to treat an introvert unfairly.

I don't think this or any will justify the shooter's action but this will make it easier to understand the cause of this tragedy.

We as a society become mature enough to accept the difference in sexual orientation and I think we should also accept the difference in personality in social need and treat an introvert fairly.
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:58 PM
 
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I think the fundamental message is this - if a kid seems too weird or volatile, maybe it's best just to go ahead and wipe him out somehow before he gets the chance to shoot up his school.
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Old 08-31-2007, 09:28 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,556,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sisyphus89 View Post
I read a few important findings from the tragic accident in Virginia Tech.
One aspect I'd like to mention is the aspect of harsh and cruel treatment which the shooter had to endure during his high school days.
We all know that there is a huge spectrum of people in terms of social need from extreme extrovert to extreme introvert.
The problem is that there is a unfair bias against an introvert in society which is often used to justify to treat an introvert unfairly.

I don't think this or any will justify the shooter's action but this will make it easier to understand the cause of this tragedy.

We as a society become mature enough to accept the difference in sexual orientation and I think we should also accept the difference in personality in social need and treat an introvert fairly.
Your post is one of those many fact-filled observations that are "absolutely true" and at the same time have "absolutely no application" in real life (I make many of these myself)--
It's arguably true that introverts are treated badly. The same thing could be said of short people, fat people, ugly people, non-white people, old people, and just about every other kind of people----in fact, anyone who in any way could be construed as being "disadvantaged". As a matter if fact, I read a report once which stated that about 75 to 78% of ALL people could be classified as "disadvantaged" by some measure, and I'm sure that is true.
The fact is, we now live in an age of entitlement, and that simple fact is perhaps the fatal "key" to the whole problem.
In our "new" society, NO ONE should have to feel "less" than anyone else. That includes everyone from classroom loners, to the guy who can't get a date, to the guy downsized from his job, to the angry tribesman in the mountains of Pakistan. A huge number of our "new"-style crimes of horrific violence have one thing in common; someone who has a "grievance" against a group or a system he sees as "oppressing" him, feels the right to seek vengeance. The new social order has little patience with old-style teasing, hazing, harrassment, or bullying. This, of course, can be a "good" thing, but when folks begin to feel "entitled", watch out......some people will take this "entitlement" to the extreme........
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Old 08-31-2007, 11:55 PM
 
62 posts, read 263,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Your post is one of those many fact-filled observations that are "absolutely true" and at the same time have "absolutely no application" in real life (I make many of these myself)--
It's arguably true that introverts are treated badly. The same thing could be said of short people, fat people, ugly people, non-white people, old people, and just about every other kind of people----in fact, anyone who in any way could be construed as being "disadvantaged". As a matter if fact, I read a report once which stated that about 75 to 78% of ALL people could be classified as "disadvantaged" by some measure, and I'm sure that is true.
The fact is, we now live in an age of entitlement, and that simple fact is perhaps the fatal "key" to the whole problem.
In our "new" society, NO ONE should have to feel "less" than anyone else. That includes everyone from classroom loners, to the guy who can't get a date, to the guy downsized from his job, to the angry tribesman in the mountains of Pakistan. A huge number of our "new"-style crimes of horrific violence have one thing in common; someone who has a "grievance" against a group or a system he sees as "oppressing" him, feels the right to seek vengeance. The new social order has little patience with old-style teasing, hazing, harrassment, or bullying. This, of course, can be a "good" thing, but when folks begin to feel "entitled", watch out......some people will take this "entitlement" to the extreme........
I'm not sure how you make a connection between preventing people being harassed and the possible accidents.
I think it is contrary.
If you treat people with sympathy, you will minimize the risk considerably.
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Old 09-01-2007, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,185,348 times
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Here's the "origin" of the VT tragedy: The guy was a mentally ill psychopath. Period. His paranoid rantings and delusions of supreme self-importance should have made that crystal clear. As kacked in the head as he was, had people not picked on him he could just as well have used the excuse that "everyone ignores me!" to do the same damn thing. While I don't particularly condone it, getting picked on is a part of life that almost everyone has to cope with in their youth. It doesn't drive one to murder unless one is already so imbalanced that any pretext will suffice.
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Old 09-01-2007, 01:52 AM
 
62 posts, read 263,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
Here's the "origin" of the VT tragedy: The guy was a mentally ill psychopath. Period. His paranoid rantings and delusions of supreme self-importance should have made that crystal clear. As kacked in the head as he was, had people not picked on him he could just as well have used the excuse that "everyone ignores me!" to do the same damn thing. While I don't particularly condone it, getting picked on is a part of life that almost everyone has to cope with in their youth. It doesn't drive one to murder unless one is already so imbalanced that any pretext will suffice.
The shooter was an extreme introvert who liked to be left alone and his classmates did not let him alone.
Don't you think that life will be much better if we don't hate or ridicule people based on naturally given things like gayness and social character ?
I'm not sure what would happen if the shooter was left alone but I know that in the long the best way to control the tragic accident is treating everyone with compassion and sympathy.
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Old 09-01-2007, 02:11 AM
 
12,669 posts, read 20,447,035 times
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They are finding out that this kid has been troubled for a very long time. But because of the laws we have in place no one was able to know about the past, like I guess he was hospitalized which could have saved lives. so the question that is being asked is can that info be given when it is whatever deemed important to school officials or even employers that he would have gone to seek out after college?
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Old 09-01-2007, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,185,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sisyphus89 View Post
The shooter was an extreme introvert who liked to be left alone and his classmates did not let him alone.
Don't you think that life will be much better if we don't hate or ridicule people based on naturally given things like gayness and social character ?
I'm not sure what would happen if the shooter was left alone but I know that in the long the best way to control the tragic accident is treating everyone with compassion and sympathy.
I'm not buying this "he just wanted to be left alone" nonsense. One of his stated grievances was that he was spurned by women -- namely those who reported him for stalking, I suppose. People who just want to be left alone don't stalk other people.

And don't insult my intelligence by calling this "an accident" as if he were just playing around with with what he thought was a toy cap gun and inadvertently shot 32 people to death. This was a calculated, premeditated act of mass murder, not an accident. And the best way to prevent murderous "accidents" like this one is to do our best to make sure that the mentally ill get the treatment they need and, as a last resort, separate them from the general population for their own protection and for ours. If you seriously believe that simply not picking on psychotics is sufficient to prevent them from hurting themselves and/or others... well, I'm sorry if this sounds offensive, but that is dangerously, stupidly naive and a wonderful way to see that more such, ahem, "accidents" occur.
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Old 09-01-2007, 08:25 AM
 
62 posts, read 263,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
I'm not buying this "he just wanted to be left alone" nonsense. One of his stated grievances was that he was spurned by women -- namely those who reported him for stalking, I suppose. People who just want to be left alone don't stalk other people.

And don't insult my intelligence by calling this "an accident" as if he were just playing around with with what he thought was a toy cap gun and inadvertently shot 32 people to death. This was a calculated, premeditated act of mass murder, not an accident. And the best way to prevent murderous "accidents" like this one is to do our best to make sure that the mentally ill get the treatment they need and, as a last resort, separate them from the general population for their own protection and for ours. If you seriously believe that simply not picking on psychotics is sufficient to prevent them from hurting themselves and/or others... well, I'm sorry if this sounds offensive, but that is dangerously, stupidly naive and a wonderful way to see that more such, ahem, "accidents" occur.
You have to understand this is a very rare event.
I think the probability of people like the shooter who are bullied and insulted by classmates and coworkers because of the lack of their social needs and skills actually commit the crime like is very very close to zero.

Another point is that this is not a traditional mental illness like schizophrenia.
The shooter could do almost everything things normally except social interactions and he has total and clear, although distorted understanding of what he was doing.

You cannot possibly separate socially ill-adapted people from society just because you want to feel safe.

It will not make you safe because this event will not repeat again in your life time.

And it is morally wrong to punish people just because they are different than you.
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Old 09-01-2007, 11:45 AM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,556,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sisyphus89 View Post
I'm not sure how you make a connection between preventing people being harassed and the possible accidents.
I think it is contrary.
If you treat people with sympathy, you will minimize the risk considerably.
Once again, I'm alluding to our extreme culture of entitlement. In our present society, NO ONE feels he should have to be teased, marginalized, or in any way mocked or "dissed". And that if he IS treated that way, he has the right to "get even". Of course, this isn't law--it's our modern day culture. Even the terrorists of the middle east are generally acknlowledged to feel an anger toward a fast-moving "western" world in which they are forbidden by their own culture to participate.
The underlying theme in all this is, "I'm unhappy, (an ancient concept) and SOMEONE is gonna pay !!" (a very modern concept). That describes the VT incident, and many other headline-grabbers. We tacitly acknowledge the very human "need to strike back". Remember, in former times, this sort of stuff would never have been "explained". Maybe that was harsh, but it sure has gotten more complicated now, don't you think?
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