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Old 01-04-2012, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
9,701 posts, read 5,112,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirdik View Post
Do you believe humans are inherently evil?
No.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:29 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,048,770 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirdik View Post
Both Island Natives survival depends on the shelter and food Island Native #1 has created so they could be considered as wealth.
So we are changing the variables of the question? If that is the case then it depends on how one defines wealth, simple material improvements or an abundance of valuable assets. For the purposes here, I don't have a problem with your redefined criteria.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:31 PM
 
3,498 posts, read 2,218,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
So we are changing the variables of the question? If that is the case then it depends on how one defines wealth, simple material improvements or an abundance of valuable assets. For the purposes here, I don't have a problem with your redefined criteria.
wealth is not static, but natural resources are limited. There is only so much oil and gold in the world. You can't build more of it.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:42 PM
 
5,915 posts, read 4,813,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinny Puppy View Post
wealth is not static, but natural resources are limited. There is only so much oil and gold in the world. You can't build more of it.
Even the sun is not going to be around forever.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:45 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,048,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinny Puppy View Post
wealth is not static, but natural resources are limited. There is only so much oil and gold in the world. You can't build more of it.
Well this could lead to a very complex philosophical debate. Does wealth have permanence? If it does then one could argue that wealth can be created, but if wealth is transient then whatever wealth is created eventually is lost within a closed system. For example, we have accounts of ancient civilizations creating great cities, and massive "wealth" but for the most part that "wealth" has returned to the dust that it was created from. If what is created returns to its original state, in a sense wealth is static since there is a finite amount of resources from which to create it.

How's that for an utterly etherial if not metaphysical argument (something I rarely venture into).
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
2,526 posts, read 3,051,742 times
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In your example, you need to start by asking where person no. 1 acquired the resources to accomplish the tasks described. If that person worked for someone (who, perhaps, lives off the island) for pay, then resources were transferred from the employer to the employee in the form of wages or salary. If person no. 1 inherited the resources, then they were transferred to them via that inheritance. If person no. 1 took possession of those resources from what had been communal (or, at least, un-owned) resources, then they have unilaterally transferred those resources from nature to their own portfolio.

However you frame it, there is no increase in wealth. There is simply a transference of wealth.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:50 PM
 
3,498 posts, read 2,218,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirdik View Post
Even the sun is not going to be around forever.
Ok, so your comparing the sun to oil and gold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Well this could lead to a very complex philosophical debate. Does wealth have permanence? If it does then one could argue that wealth can be created, but if wealth is transient then whatever wealth is created eventually is lost within a closed system. For example, we have accounts of ancient civilizations creating great cities, and massive "wealth" but for the most part that "wealth" has returned to the dust that it was created from. If what is created returns to its original state, in a sense wealth is static since there is a finite amount of resources from which to create it.

How's that for an utterly etherial if not metaphysical argument (something I rarely venture into).
I like your answer a lot more. Look at the brain on ovcatto
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:06 PM
 
5,915 posts, read 4,813,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinny Puppy View Post
Ok, so your comparing the sun to oil and gold.
I was just pointing out that any recourse is finite but wealth is infinite especially if you consider knowledge wealth.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
1,065 posts, read 1,756,297 times
Reputation: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinny Puppy View Post
Marx wasn't a liberal and I doubt he believed this. I'm also doubting that this George Glass friend of yours actually exists.
Well thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion other than a baseless and unsupported accusation.

What a waste...
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:14 PM
 
3,498 posts, read 2,218,190 times
Reputation: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdevelop2 View Post
Well thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion other than a baseless and unsupported accusation.

What a waste...
Sorry for bursting your bubble that Marx was a liberal who believed wealth didn't grow, unless, as another member stated, you were referring to Groucho.
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