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Old 04-21-2012, 12:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
That's funny. I thought we wanted the 40%+ of people who pay no taxes to pay their fair share, and I thought we wanted the wealthy to be able to enjoy the money they busted their a**es for, instead of spending it to prop up people who are too lazy to make anything for their own lives.

23% have zero tax liability after taking the standard deduction and personal exemption(s). How much is their fair share?

23% have zero tax liability after taking the standard deduction and personal exemption(s) plus various tax breaks (child tax credit, itemized deductions, EITC etc.) Their fair share certainly might be greater than zero but that's debatable.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
On the other hand, I'm not sure that 'income inequality' is even a valid term, except when it involves two people doing the same job, yet being paid differently (eg; men and women or?).

I had a half-time student job on campus (students were not allowed to work on campus more than 30 hours a week) as a janitor. I worked alongside other students as well as full-time non-students who were paid five times more (including generous fringe benefits of which students had none) than the students.

Talk about two people doing the same job and being paid differently.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
When it shuts down the economy.

FDR's fed chairman compared the economy to a poker game, and explained the depression like this.

Everyone sits down at the poker table, everyone has money, the game goes on. As the game goes on, one party gains more and more of the money. They can then place higher bets, winning the game regardless of the cards they hold.

Sooner or later, everyone is out of money, and one guy leaves with it all, and then the game is over.

Money pool at the top created the depression, and without enough liquidity in the market, it stopped.

The same thing happened in 2004, but started much earlier.

The Bush tax cuts simply threw fuel on the fire.
Money pool at the top didn't start the depression. What started the depression was people taking loans out to buy stock and then being margin called. What stopped the depression from happening sooner was one rich guy putting up $25,000,000 to loan out when the credit markets came to a standstill.

It's true that the rich folks of that time could literally manipulate stock prices to their advantage but that wasn't what started runs on the banks and margin calls.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
So you disagree that over 40% of people in this country work and pay no income tax?

Educate me then. In 2011 it was 46%, specifically. If you disagree, prove me wrong instead of throwing around inane phrases and overusing periods.

I doubt that 46% work and pay no income tax.

23% have zero income tax liability after taking the standard deduction and personal exemption(s). I suspect that many of these people don't work or at least are not breadwinners working for a living. (e.g. they might be high school or college students with part-time jobs who don't earn more than the zero bracket amount and are filing only to get their withholding taxes back.)
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
You're right it is a lie.

The truth from the IRS data per 2008 is...



Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data, 1980 - 2008

All that tells me is that either tax rates on the top 1% have soared (which they haven't) or the income of the top 1% has soared.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
We want the restoration of moderately higher income tax rates on the wealthy.
We want middle class social programs fully funded. This isn't anything different that what was going on during the Reagan years.
Actually, we want to reduce tax rates for all those paying, and those that are NOT paying, we require them to start paying.

We want to end all federal social programs as they are beyond the scope of the federal gov't as defined by the Constitution.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:09 PM
 
6,160 posts, read 7,033,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Money pool at the top didn't start the depression. What started the depression was people taking loans out to buy stock and then being margin called. What stopped the depression from happening sooner was one rich guy putting up $25,000,000 to loan out when the credit markets came to a standstill.

It's true that the rich folks of that time could literally manipulate stock prices to their advantage but that wasn't what started runs on the banks and margin calls.
1) The recession has little to do with rich vs. poor. However, once it happened, the low income segments were hit worst, while the top tier was not. Not only the poor struggle all the time, they simply cannot recover in the current atmosphere, which is unprecedented in recent history.
2) The rich (regardless of taxation) could end the recession sooner, but they preferred not to. Sitting on the fence and waiting suited them best, while increasing their wealth by investing in companies which cut jobs and moved offshore.
3) Something most people do not recognize or understand, is that large income gaps are a danger to democracy. No country with few billionaires and a vast majority of poor has genuine democratic regime. None. Democracy depends on a strong dominating middle class. Once that is gone, we live in a different sphere.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Government should not tell businesses what they must pay workers. The minimum wage has not solved any poverty problems ... after being in place for 50 years. It has not stopped people from being poor. It has not stopped rich people from getting richer. It's like the war on drugs.. it just does not work.

Government should not tell landlords what they can and cannot rent out to workers and should not tell property owners what they can and cannot sell to a willing and qualified buyer.

And the minimum wage has certainly stopped full-time burger flippers from being poor.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatles4evr View Post
Actually, we want to reduce tax rates for all those paying, and those that are NOT paying, we require them to start paying.

I've already shown that reducing tax rates for everyone makes low-wage workers worse off. Why would you want to make them worse off?
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
And by the way, check this out;

A report on BusinessInsider.com from December 2010 states that 315 New York City sanitation workers earned over $100,000. Along with salaries that increase quickly because of union membership, New York City sanitation workers have retirement and health benefits. They must pass a written and physical exam and are put on a waiting list before they are called to work for the city's Department of [LEFT]
Read more: Sanitation Workers' Salaries in New York City | eHow.com Sanitation Workers' Salaries in New York City | eHow.com
[/LEFT]

Nothing about NYC workers surprises me, some years ago there was a flap about an awful lot of NYC school janitors making $100K and doing next to no work.

Historically, sanitation workers had a hard physical job and deserved every penny they were paid. A former employer noted that there were no old sanitation workers due to the strenuous work

Today, garbage trucks have hydraulic lifts and the workers hardly lift a finger.
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