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Old 01-05-2012, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,187 posts, read 996,164 times
Reputation: 593

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Quote:
Originally Posted by h0tmess View Post
Well..
Government really shouldn't need to hand out papers so people can be recognized. It's silly. But, if we are for it on a legal level, it needs to be handed up to the states. I don't care what it's called. As long as a civil union piece of paper IS the same thing as a marriage piece of paper .. without any loopholes.
"Sorry, we only allow married people to put their spouse on health insurance" is a good example.

With that being said, even if legal on a federal level.. the government should NOT force any church to marry a same sex couple.

Sadly, I see it coming. We'll be able to get married eventually, but we'll want more. We'll demand that the churches we belong to to marry us or ELSE.... and.. the gay couple will win...and gays will get hated more for requiring special treatment.

I predict it'll be a lesbian couple who will do it. Just for fun!
See this is my argument as well. I don't think that it will be enough and churches will not be allowed to practice their religious freedom to deny gay couples to be married in their churches. I think that will be sad.

as far as your prediction goes... LOL!
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:35 PM
 
14,917 posts, read 13,112,399 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyndsong71 View Post
See this is my argument as well. I don't think that it will be enough and churches will not be allowed to practice their religious freedom to deny gay couples to be married in their churches. I think that will be sad.

as far as your prediction goes... LOL!
Thankfully we have a 1st Amendment that enshrines a separation between Church and State and ensures the free exercise of religion. What makes you think we'd abandon it by taking away a Church's rights to religious freedom?
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:49 PM
Sco
 
4,259 posts, read 4,922,320 times
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The main problem with civil union vs marriage at the state level only is that a civil union does not receive all of the benefits of marriage under federal law. If all married couples hetero and homo only received a civil union and federal law changes were made to provide all of the current benefits of marriage to civil unions than I don't think too many people would have a problem with it.

The issues arise when the term civil union is reserved for use by same sex couples only. Or when blatantly discriminatory laws like DOMA enshrine in federal law permanent second class for same sex couples regardless of what the states choose to do.
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,187 posts, read 996,164 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sco View Post
The main problem with civil union vs marriage at the state level only is that a civil union does not receive all of the benefits of marriage under federal law. If all married couples hetero and homo only received a civil union and federal law changes were made to provide all of the current benefits of marriage to civil unions than I don't think too many people would have a problem with it.

The issues arise when the term civil union is reserved for use by same sex couples only. Or when blatantly discriminatory laws like DOMA enshrine in federal law permanent second class for same sex couples regardless of what the states choose to do.
Yes, that is the problem we currently face. But I"m specifically asking if it would make a difference to both sides if a civil union DID afford the same legal rights to all couples, regardless of sex, but did not have the "marraige" label or the religious ceremony.
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:10 PM
 
25,850 posts, read 16,549,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Thankfully we have a 1st Amendment that enshrines a separation between Church and State and ensures the free exercise of religion. What makes you think we'd abandon it by taking away a Church's rights to religious freedom?
The ink would not be dry on the bill allowing equal civil union/marriage and some gay couple would be suing the Catholic Church.

That is a guarantee.
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:12 PM
 
14,917 posts, read 13,112,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
The ink would not be dry on the bill allowing equal civil union/marriage and some gay couple would be suing the Catholic Church.

That is a guarantee.
Oh please. Sue them for what?
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,408,005 times
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All legal unions should be civil unions.

Marriage is a religious ceremony, and we aren't supposed to respect an establishment of religion.
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:15 PM
 
1,615 posts, read 2,576,540 times
Reputation: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyndsong71 View Post
Yes, that is the problem we currently face. But I"m specifically asking if it would make a difference to both sides if a civil union DID afford the same legal rights to all couples, regardless of sex, but did not have the "marraige" label or the religious ceremony.
well, i think it's silly because firstly, many straight couples, including my paretns got married in courthouse, NOT a church (like a civil union) yet they refer to themselves as being married.

I'm gay and if i got a courthouse civil union, it would simply tell people i'm married like my parents do.

Also, my church is FOR gay marriage. they perform gay ceremonies already, so I would ALSO be able to have a church wedding as well.. thusly making me 'married' in a CHURCH sense and ALSO a civil marriage sense.
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,850,178 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
The ink would not be dry on the bill allowing equal civil union/marriage and some gay couple would be suing the Catholic Church.

That is a guarantee.
Even if they did, the odds they could win such a suit is extremely low. After all the Catholic church has several rules around marriage that are more restrictive than society in general: like divorce.
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:16 PM
 
25,850 posts, read 16,549,505 times
Reputation: 16028
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Oh please. Sue them for what?
A Catholic Church is going to refuse to marry gay couples. We both know that.

The Catholic Church has deep pockets and any lawsuit against them is going to be for big money and big attention.

I believe that the law is going to have to be specific that guarantees a church's right to refuse to marry them.
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