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When you look at our deficits you have to come to the conclusion we are stealing from our children and grandchildren. Don't get much more immoral than that.
Dr. Walter Williams explains the immorality of the liberal position:
"Once one accepts the principle of self-ownership, what's moral and immoral becomes self-evident. Murder is immoral because it violates private property. Rape and theft are also immoral -- they also violate private property. Here's an important question: Would rape become morally acceptable if Congress passed a law legalizing it? You say: "What's wrong with you, Williams? Rape is immoral plain and simple, no matter what Congress says or does!" If you take that position, isn't it just as immoral when Congress legalizes the taking of one person's earnings to give to another? Surely if a private person took money from one person and gave it to another, we'd deem it theft and, as such, immoral. Does the same act become moral when Congress takes people's money to give to farmers, airline companies or an impoverished family? No, it's still theft, but with an important difference: It's legal, and participants aren't jailed."
Definitely the most incoherent and idiotic thing I've read in a long time.
Rape and taxes are not the same thing
Give me a break.
This is the type of stuff that the idiots on the far right try to push that just proves how irrational and illogical they are. Asking rich people to pay 4.6% more in taxes is not even remotely similar to forcing someone to be subjected to sexual assault.
The ability to tax was a founding principle of this country, it's in the freaking articles of confederation. If you disagree with taxes, leave this country. Otherwise, stop whining like a spoiled brat
No I am just trying to end the babbling. If you don't have a defined political economy on some basis than I cannot even define a good or bad tax.
Then define one. You are making the argument, not me.
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What is social equality? Is it biased for opportunity or result?
Fair access and opportunity to societal benefits. "Society" here might be a little vague, so we'll have to define some of those.
We can surely include our explicit and implicit rights as humans.
We can include protection from foreign and domestic threats.
We can include a common and modern infrastructure.
Health, safety, and education are certainly societal benefits.
Disagree or agree with anything? More to include?
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What sorts of inequality should be tolerated?
Anything outside the control of the individual should be acted against to prevent inequality. We can't prevent all inequality, but we should strive to have equality where personal actions determine your results, not the actions of others. Does that make sense?
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Murders cannot be legitimacy purchased in the US based upon life as a social guarantee. On the other hand people can buy many other things that reach into gray areas.
Once they are used to redistribute wealth they are theft. Taxes used for defense of us all--not theft. Taxes used for subsidies, bailouts, welfare payments, etc. equals theft.
It's also not theft because you elect the people who set these taxes. In some cases, the people directly elect to impose taxes. That's the whole freaking point of this country. Taxation WITH representation.
The idea in the OP is so unAmerican that it makes me sick. The TEA Party is all about greed and selfishness. I don't believe in subsidies for big corporations, or spending $700,000,000,000 on "defense" or any of the idiotic wastes of our government, but taxes are a necessary part of being in a society.
You like having roads? Well, those are paid for by your taxes genius.
You like having police protection? Well, it's paid for by your taxes genius.
You like having a military to protect us from invasion? Well, it's paid for by your taxes genius.
You like having air that you can breathe? Well, without your taxes paying for environmental protection and regulation we'd be breathing in the kind of Air they have in Beijing, China.
The utter lack of intellect and logic is why the TEA Party is such a joke to anyone with any kind of intelligence.
Let me ask this, would you consider Nixon to be a Socialist? Because the tax rate under Nixon was 70% for the highest bracket and you did not come under 39% until you made less than $28,000 as a couple or $14,000 individually...where was the TEA Party then? Or how about when Eisenhower had taxes at 91%???
You like having roads? Well, those are paid for by your taxes genius.
You like having police protection? Well, it's paid for by your taxes genius.
You like having a military to protect us from invasion? Well, it's paid for by your taxes genius.
You like having air that you can breathe? Well, without your taxes paying for environmental protection and regulation we'd be breathing in the kind of Air they have in Beijing, China.
Your four examples are not the transfer payments that myself and Williams argue is pure theft. Try using a bit of logic before posting.
“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” James Madison
Madison certainly supported military and roads, those specific enumerated powers can be found in the Constitution.
Do me a favor, don't go around calling yourself a libertarian. It is bad enough socialists already stole the term liberal.
When you look at our deficits you have to come to the conclusion we are stealing from our children and grandchildren. Don't get much more immoral than that.
I would agree except for being erroneous. Its morally sound , but operationally completely wrong.
I would agree except for being erroneous. Its morally sound , but operationally completely wrong.
The problem with robbing Peter to pay Paul is you lose Peter's vote. Peter and Paul's grandchildren cannot vote. Our founding fathers went to war over taxation without representation.
Then define one. You are making the argument, not me.
I did not reply to you. I just made an equally ambiguous moral claim as the OP.
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Fair access and opportunity to societal benefits. "Society" here might be a little vague, so we'll have to define some of those.
We can surely include our explicit and implicit rights as humans.
We can include protection from foreign and domestic threats.
We can include a common and modern infrastructure.
Health, safety, and education are certainly societal benefits.
Disagree or agree with anything? More to include?
What's the infrastructure?
Quote:
Anything outside the control of the individual should be acted against to prevent inequality. We can't prevent all inequality, but we should strive to have equality where personal actions determine your results, not the actions of others. Does that make sense?
Be more specific please.
Well I differ from most political positions because of my belief in usufruct. I also believe in the original Locke phrase Life , Liberty and Property not the Constitutional bastardization of it. I define property as something of use based upon alterations of the physical world. In other words I believe one's right to land is based upon occupation and improvements, not absenteeism and claiming that the river that turns the water wheel is yours. The water wheel is yours.
So that is what I define as property. Now what justifies its confiscation? Common defense is perhaps one. Land values based upon favorable economic conditions cannot be confiscated. They are not your rightful property. The best seat in the opera house is created by the opera singer, not the seat.
Taxation isn't theft. It is what you pay, involuntarily, for services rendered by government.
Living in this country, you use government services whether you like it or not.
Taxation is theft. It is what you pay so others can enjoy the fruits of your labor. The ones who want and believe government owns you and raises you from cradle to grave love taxes. Taxes are governments controlling tool. No one has a right to my property.
Nothing wrong with user fees.
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